I have a good variety of handguns, and keep a Mossberg 500 available for home defense, but I'm thinking about adding an AR15 rifle for the just-in-case the SHTF scenario. What round do you consider the ideal for self defense use for this rifle? I won't be hunting or using the rifle for anything beyond defending my family should that need ever arise.
Ideal cartridge for AR15 type rifle for self defense
- Thread starter vito
- Start date
kilimanjaro
New member
No question about 5.56/.223.
Your shotty is best for indoors.
Your shotty is best for indoors.
No doubts, 223/5.56 loaded with a softpoint bullet. Bullet weight doesn't matter much. Some of the other AR chamberings offer very marginal advantages at longer ranges. But not inside of 200 yards.
At indoor ranges the shotgun offers no advantages over a rifle. At close ranges the patterns are so tight you might as well be shooting a rifle. A shotgun is a better option outdoors at ranges of 10-50 yards where the shot pattern is most effective. It will weigh more, be longer, offer limited ammo capacity and have about 6X more recoil.
Your handguns for the most part will be the better option indoors and at very close ranges where one handed operation is important.
At indoor ranges the shotgun offers no advantages over a rifle. At close ranges the patterns are so tight you might as well be shooting a rifle. A shotgun is a better option outdoors at ranges of 10-50 yards where the shot pattern is most effective. It will weigh more, be longer, offer limited ammo capacity and have about 6X more recoil.
Your handguns for the most part will be the better option indoors and at very close ranges where one handed operation is important.
I watched an episode of Gun Talk TV(I think) and they were testing for penetration on walls.The AR they used was loaded with 40 grain varmint loads and it didn't penetrate the walls like a 380 did. I was surprised at that. That might be something to consider for the home defense situation. BTW, I am talking about 5.56/223 caliber rifles. You probably wouldn't want to penetrate walls too much and risk shooting an innocent person. They also used a 20 gauge shotgun with 7 1/2 shot that looked like it might be good if penetration of walls is a concern. I know there are a lot of folks that think that bigger is better but I am not one of those. Certain applications call for certain loads and I don't feel that HD loads should necessarily be able to penetrate engine blocks.
Also, I think I would want to do some testing myself on the ammo used for home defense before I made my final decision.
Also, I think I would want to do some testing myself on the ammo used for home defense before I made my final decision.
You can't talk about "self defense" and SHTF. The rules for SD (and all the legal aspects of it) go straight out the window with every other law the instant you no longer have the gov't involved to enforce the laws and you certainly aren't interested in self-enforcement when it comes to your life and property. During SHTF, you'll also (I assume) be interested in defense of your property, which probably involves much longer ranges outside the home or immediate vicinity... and pure defense of property is illegal in most cases... ie, go to jail for murder.
And that's the reason SHTF discussions are generally not allowed on TFL.
IMHO, if we are talking about staying completely legal and still needing to face a jury after a shoot, and only defense of life at relatively short range... I'll chime in with a suppressed 9mm SBR... 147gr factory Gold Dots. Light, quiet, 30rds on tap. You could upgrade to .300blk with a weight penalty.
And that's the reason SHTF discussions are generally not allowed on TFL.
IMHO, if we are talking about staying completely legal and still needing to face a jury after a shoot, and only defense of life at relatively short range... I'll chime in with a suppressed 9mm SBR... 147gr factory Gold Dots. Light, quiet, 30rds on tap. You could upgrade to .300blk with a weight penalty.
turtlehead
New member
I vote .223 and that we make "shotty" a swear word.
TruthTellers
New member
If you're gonna get an AR for SHTF and defending yourself for it, stick with 5.56x45/.223 Remington. Not a good hunting cartridge however.
Here is a good article on SD ammo selection including .223/5.56.
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/
For the sake of SHTF discussion, .223 is quite an effective killing round on medium-sized game. There are several heavy factory hunting loads (Barnes 70gr TSX is beastly) and a large amount of really heavy options for handloaders. I'd have no problem taking head-shots on bear or moose with an everyday 55gr FMJ or straight lung-heart shots with 55gr SP's. I'm not necessarily going to be worried about clean ethical kills nor caliber limitations of my state when I'm hunting to feed my family during the apocalypse.
Bamashooter
New member
62gr Barnes TSX bullets will kill hogs and deer very effectively as will 65gr Gamekings and 62gr Fusion. As for home or self defense I would choose a varmint type bullet or a bullet that has little chance to pass thru anything after passing thru an assailant.
TruthTellers
New member
If you're confidant in your shot placement abilities, best of luck to you. I'll stick with .308 for power and long range effectiveness and 7.62x39 for short to mid range defense.
dakota.potts
New member
.223/5.56. It's the only cartridge (other than maybe subsonic .300 blackout) I would use where overpenetration could cause significant risk. Anything capable of stopping an attacker will overpenetrate things and risk collateral damage, but most of the other AR cartridges that I'm aware of are designed for heavy power and seem to be overkill to me in that situation. Inside the house, I would use heavy varmint bullets in .223 (mine is loaded with V Max). If worried about more open situations where an AR would be helpful (riots, mobs, etc.), heavier bonded expanding (not fragmenting) rounds would make up a lot of the difference.
More importantly, you'll be able to afford the ammo to actually practice with it as you need to.
More importantly, you'll be able to afford the ammo to actually practice with it as you need to.