I wonder why Jeff Cooper decided to develope the 10mm???
- Thread starter deadmarsh
- Start date
I thought that it was Dornhaus and Dixon who actually developed the Bren 10, and convinced the ammo manufacturers to produce the 10mm cartridge. Cooper was said to look favorably upon the 10mm, or any true .40 caliber weapon for use in smaller pistols, instead of the 9mm. For him, though, the round would have been the 165-180 grain bullet at 950-1000 fps.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Cooper got behind the concept of the 10mm.
Just like he got behind the concept of the CZ 75 as a combat pistol even though it was in 9mm.
Just like he got behind the concept of the CZ 75 as a combat pistol even though it was in 9mm.
That was what the 10mm evloved to when it turned into the 10mm -P aka 10mm FBI and eventually 40S&W.
In the battle between Heavy and Slow vs. Light and Fast the true 10mm, as originally designed, approved by the FBI and endorsed by Cooper was Heavy and Fast.
There are very real advantages when penetration is needed, such as wild animals and intervening objects like car doors and windows in the 10mm. It is very similar to the 41Magnum, although that round could go hotter. The 41Magnum was an acclaimed man stopper advocated by many of the older wheel gun bred proffesionals. The 10mm nearly replicated its street loads in an auto.
In the early '70s there was a writer at Guns & Ammo who worked up a 10mm round based on the .30 Rem case. Pretty sure it was Whit Collins. I came up with one based on a shortened and reamed .308 case and had a barrel made for it using a sleeved 1911 bbl.
His worked out pretty well, IIRC, but mine was 'way overpowered for the 1911. Got the loading & chrono data somewhere around here, but I haven't looked at it in decades. Both of us used a 180 gr .38/40 bullet.
Neither of our rounds ever saw production, which in the case of mine is probably just as well.
John
Cape Canaveral
His worked out pretty well, IIRC, but mine was 'way overpowered for the 1911. Got the loading & chrono data somewhere around here, but I haven't looked at it in decades. Both of us used a 180 gr .38/40 bullet.
Neither of our rounds ever saw production, which in the case of mine is probably just as well.
John
Cape Canaveral
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Mike Irwin
Staff
And let's not forget John Browning's near 10mm, the 9.8mm Romanian.
IIRC it started out with trying to improve the BHP .You can't convert the BHP to 45 as the slide isn't big enough but you could do a .40 ! There were various development along this line .It ended up with the 10mm which the FBI found too much so it was shortened to the 40S&W. This was dimensioned to fit into a 9mm frame. There were 'minimum' stopping power standards by a number of people including Elmer Keith who wanted .40/1000fps/200 gr .The 40S&W works very well for SD ,the 10mm better for game like deer.
Hotdog1911
New member
test
testing testing
testing testing
He liked the idea of a defense round that could reach out and touch an opponent at ranges beyond fifty yards. I remember reading that the 10mm had as much engergy at 50 yards as the .45 does at the muzzle. The 10mm shot nice and flat, unlike the rainbow-like trajectory of the .45. What's not to like? Well, the considerable recoil, for one. I'd forgotten just how hard even middling 10mm loads kick, when I shot my Delta Elite last Saturday. A 155gr at maybe 1200fps kicks harder than .45 hardball. In an interview with Cooper, from maybe three years ago, I heard him admit that for all the good things the 10mm does, you don't need a self-defense handgun at 75 yards, you need it at seven yards, and the .45 is at least as effective, and easier to shoot, than a 10mm at those distances.
I have an issue of Guns & Ammo that has a bit of Cooper's commentary about the 10mm in it. He says that the main idea was to develop a combat pistol that could effectively engage targets out to 50 yd. He also said that the problem with the logic was that while the cartridge was capable of such performance, the average shooter was not.