I use those colored projectiles (.44) for CAS

[Dingoboyx]

I like them coz you dont have to handle the lead which is nasty stuff :barf: Is that stuff teflon? or, what is it? I used to cast my own lead, and want to again, but found these convenient for 2 reasons. The first I have already mentioned (not handling lead) the other is I reload .44 mag & .44-40. I colour code them so I cant confuse which are which at a glance. My .44 mags have orange colored heads, the .44-40 are green.

My question is, what is this stuff actually & where can I buy it? Is it commercially available? or is it some secret formula concocted by the bullet makers who will kill to keep the secret? (kryptonite? 11 different herbs and spices?) Is it just teflon paint?
Has anyone ever used any sort of plastic paint?

looking forward to finding out if someone knows

Muzza

 

[Sam06]

Dingo, I have only seen it used by Non US shooters. I think it is Teflon and that would make it a "Deadly" Armor Piercing, Cop killer Round. The silly, anti gun, limp wrist, Bed wetting, pencil Necked, stick armed nambi pambies we have in this country would have a cow if you even brought them within our territorial waters.

Post a photo of them so I can look at those deadly projectiles

Sam


PS me and my dog just got back from a 10K run here in town and I am going to be on the 550B the rest of this rainy day. I hope to go shooting tomorrow but the weather does not look good for it.

 

[Dingoboyx]

OK sambo

Here's the pics. They are .44-40 the green ones, .44 rem mag the orange. They are full case (less projectile depth, felt wad 200gr projectiles. I pay $55 for 500. I would like to keep making my own (these ones whoever makes them vary in size a bit) .44 mag is supposed to be 10.92mm the orange ones are 10.88mm. The .44-40 are supposed to be 10.84mm, they are a mixture of 10.84mm &10.92mm!

If I can find the coating, I will make my own and color them myself. I like the coating so I can grab the bullets to take to the CAS loading table and Know I have the right ones at a glance, and I like to handle lead as little as possible.:barf:

Muzza

 

[troy_mclure]

those are nifty lookin? does the stuff leave residue in the bbl?

 

[Trapp]

Dingo, I have only seen it used by Non US shooters. I think it is Teflon and that would make it a "Deadly" Armor Piercing, Cop killer Round.

umm..... No

Armour piercing only applies to handgun bullets. Teflon does not make them pierce anything. Teflon and Moly are supposed to reduce friction and wear in the barrel...

 

[Trapp]

After looking at those, it might be a colored Moly coating. Kinda cool if you ask me...

 

[Unclenick]

Moly is just black. That is likely to be a dipped or rolled lubricating resin of some sort. Polyethylene would work if you could dissolve it. You can melt it for dipping, but its viscosity is too high to be that thin, I think (hot melt glue is usually a low melting point plasticized polyethylene). I'd have to ask a plastics guy what it might be? The H&N high speed lead bullets have it, too (yellow/orange). Note that there is no conventional lube in the lube grooves of the bullets, so it is definitely a lubricating coating. Bound to be something much cheaper than Teflon, though.

 

[Sam06]

Ever heard of KTW? and HR3132??

I have seen these bullets in the Philippines and other places. You will all have to excuse me as Dingo and I dig at each other all the time. I am sorry if I led anyone to believe I REALLY thought they were Armor Piercing bullets as I know better. It was a bit of levity, I won't let it happen again.

The bullets come from the factory with that coating. I am not sure what it is but it is not like grease or Moly. It is more like a very soft Vinyl coating. I have NEVER seen them in the USA but then I have never been to Vermont I have seen them overseas though.

I don't think we have them because they are coated with composition X

Here is a Thread about them in the Philippines where a guy kB'ed a 40 cal where they were loaded.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345621&highlight=teflon+bullets

Trapp, As you will see if you look at the Articles in the links there are states that have banned Teflon coated bullets, like South Carolina. I would think that a bullet manufactuer here in the states would realize this and not teflon coat their bullets so they could be sold in more states as the teflon does nothing for the bullet. As stated before the teflon was there so the hard bullet could accept the rifling and to some extent cut down on ricochetts.

I know Wikipedia is not the end all but you can follow the links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon_coated_bullet

Here are some articles on them.

http://www.alphadogweb.com/firearms/copkillerbullets.htm
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Teflon_coated_bullet

This is a real good read:
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200403010926.asp

Here is the bill that banned the bullets(Or at least armor piercing bullets in hand guns:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d099:HR03132:@@@D&summ2=m&


In a nut shell:
There was a company called KTW that made Teflon coated Armor Piercing bullets in the 60's till the mid 80's. The anti gun crowd got their teeth in to this and dubbed them Cop Killer bullets. Now all Teflon coated bullets are banned from sale. KTW bullets command a high price in the collector bullet market. I have a few 357 Mag KTW bullets in my collection.

Here is what the bullets look like:

I know this is off thread but I thought I should clear some things up here. The bullets are real and were called cop killer bullets, they were outlawed, There are no more of them and the Anti-gun crowd as ignorant as they are declared them illegal. The real gist of the story is the Teflon only was used to coat the bullets so they would take rifling. Not as some "Slick 50 garbage" to let the bullet slide through the Metal/Body armor. The bullets you see in dingos picture and in the thread about the kB 40cal are Teflon coated.

Ironically here are 2 countries with very stringent Gun Laws(Australia and Philippines) where you can get Teflon coated bullets....Makes you wonder does it not?

What most here don't know is that Dingo and I are just messing with each other...................Hope that helped you out some...........Sam

 

[Trapp]

Hmm..... You got me searching a little more.

There are 7 states which have bans on ownership of "Teflon-coated" bullets, but not necessarily "armor piercing" (steel core) bullets in general. These states are: OK, KS, IN, AL, NC, SC, & HI.

I though it was only a couple 3 that had any restriction on teflon..

 

[HiBC]

Interestingly,years ago when I showed at a CASS shoot with Rainier or 3 D copper plated bullets,they asked me to not bring those again,as they considered them "jacketed"

I was using the plated bullets to identify the loads as cowboy loads,rather than full .44 loads. Oh well.

 

[Sam06]

From Trap Post #5

Armour piercing only applies to handgun bullets

I think you may want to rethink or restate that. There are all kinds of Armor piercing Rounds. Here are a few:

M2AP: 30cal- Black tip
M995: 5.56- Black tip
M2/M8: API for the 50 cal-Black for the M2 and Silver and green tip for the M8
M993: 7.62- Black tip

NATO Ids their AP ammo with a black tip.

Here is a definition of what AP is and 7.62 Nato M993 ammo is included in the banned list. Rounds like the M855 "Green Tip" rounds are not banned because they are not considered AP rounds. But M995 is banned.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/ap_ammo.txt

 

[Trapp]

I stand by my statement that it only applies to handuns (the ban on armor piercing ammo)


http://nucnews.net/2000/du/98du/981204du.laws.htm

High lights from the above link:

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

3) USE - The bullet must be able to be used in a handgun. Rather than construing this to mean regular handgun calibers, ATF construes this to mean any caliber for which a handgun has been made, including handguns in rifle calibers, like .308 Winchester, and 7.62x39, for purposes of bullets covered by (B)(i). Thus bullets suitable for these calibers, as well as other rifle calibers for which handguns have been made (at least commercially made) which are constructed as described below would or should be AP ammo.

ATF has listed the following rounds as AP ammo:

All KTW, ARCANE, and THV ammo.
Czech made 9mm Para. with steel core.
German made 9mm Para. with steel core.
MSC .25 ACP with brass bullet.
BLACK STEEL armor and metal piercing ammunition.
7.62mm NATO AP and SLAP.
PMC ULTRAMAG with brass bullet (but not copper).
OMNISHOCK .38 Special with steel core.
7.62x39 ammo with steel core bullets.

ATF has specifically exempted the following rounds:

5.56 SS109 and M855 NATO rounds, with a steel penetrator tip.
.30-06 M2 AP ammo.

If you are NOT a (FFL) licensee under the Gun Control Act (an individual):

It is:

ok to OWN AP ammo
ok to SELL AP ammo
ok to BUY AP ammo
ok to SHOOT AP ammo
NOT ok to MAKE AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))
NOT ok to IMPORT AP ammo (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))

 

[RidgwayCO]

I know that years ago Federal sold a Nyclad bullet in .38 Special. Maybe this coating is colored nyclad...

 

[Dingoboyx]

Troy

Yup, they look great and they leave the bore clean as They are excellent too, coz I dont use lube on them, so the hand loading (and finised rounds) is a very clean process. The bonus of course, is that you arent handling the bare lead projectiles all the time, as we all know, handling lead (which is actually poison) alot can make you sick :barf: or make your gonads fall off or something

I am thinking maybe some waterbased plastic (teflon) paint might be the go?

The coating is dry and hard and quite durable, you can scratch it easily with a knife or screw driver, but if you drop a round on gravel or concrete, it doesnt take chunks off the exposed coating.

A couple more pics, one as close up as I could get

Muzza

 

[ThomasT]

I have never seen thos before. They look really neat.

Have you tried adding food coloring to Rooster Jacket? It might be the same thing.

 

[Dingoboyx]

Ratshooter

What is "rooster coating"?

 

[ThomasT]

Dingo Rooster Jacket is a tumble lube bullet coating that is water based and works very well. If I had thought I would have copied their address before posting.

Just do a google search for rooster jacket and that should take you to their site. RJ is a semi clear lead bullet lube and is also used for lubing paper patched bullets.

I really like the stuff. You can tumble lead bullets and spread them out to dry and they are done in a couple of hours. lee liquid alox takes several hours.