I think I have discovered why liberals do not like guns and shooting.

Archie

New member
Caution: Heavy Satire content.

Much of the basis of liberal thought is based on 'contextual viability'. That is, the applicability of anything, either premise or action, depends on how that premise or action is perceived and received by the world in context.

F'rinstance, Ms. Jones in the US history class asks,
"Can someone identify a cause of the Revolutionary War?"
Susie raises her hand and announces,
"Because Bush gave the rich a tax cut."
Ms Jones then nods appreciatively. Not wanting to disturb Susie's sense of self-worth she says,
"Yes. Unreasonable and repressive tax laws, like those emphasized and promoted by the evil Bush, were one cause of the American Revolution."
Johnnie raises his hand, stands and says,
"The British were trying to seize the colonists' firearms at Concord."
Ms Jones looks sorrowful. Johnnie's self-worth be damned.
"No, Johnnie. Guns are evil and can never be mentioned in a positive manner, for any reason. Besides, modern historians like Michael A. Bellesiles, deny the colonists really had any evil guns anyway."
"Ms Jones," Johnny asks, "how did the colonists cede from England?"
"Civil disobedience, hugging trees and sharing our common experience, Johnny. Our independence was a historic and social inevitability."
Johnny then asks "Wasn't Bellesiles censured for fraudulent research and writing?"
Ms Jones looks stern.
"Johnnie, you're a reactionary troublemaker. Go to the principle's office for re-education processing!"

Or, explaining the recent victory of the (relatively) conservative presidential candidate and several congressmen and governors; and the passage of conservative marriage acts:
Really, the conservatives did not win. The voters were distracted by actions of the press and media, true issues were ignored, and the voters were so dumb they voted for a candidate as dumb as they are. We're really smarter, we're really still in charge and to prove it, we'll sabotage the government and destroy the economy to show how bad Republicans really are.
However, this sort of reasoning cannot be applied to shooting. F'rinstance, bullseye target shooting.
The target is 50 yards away, and primarily consists of a six-inch diameter black circle. The white background is two feet by two feet. The background and black circle are sub-divided into scoring 'rings' (concentric circles) with score values from '10x' to '4'. One stands on one's own two feet, holds the pistol with one hand, and fires ten rounds in ten minutes at the black circle. Scores are counted by award shot holes the value of the 'ring' they impact. Holes on a line are awarded the higher value. Holes outside the '4 ring' are considered visible misses and no points are awarded. A maximum score is 100 point with 10 'x' hits. The 'x' hits are for breaking ties.
There are rules covering what types of pistols may be used, but this is the basic set up.

Why is this so offensive to liberals?
First off, the whole discipline is based on personal responsibility. One must fire one's own rounds at one's own target. Only those rounds impacting within the scoring rings of one's own target count toward the score. If one fires at someone else's target, those rounds are lost. If one chooses not to fire one's rounds within the allotted time, those rounds are lost. In this game, one cannot escape the consequences of one's own actions.

Secondly, the standards and values are not subject to discussion. Arguing that an 'x' ring hit is essentially the same hole as a 4 ring hit will not improve the score. Demonstrating that this particular 4-ring hole is much neater and cleaner and is artistically superior to another's 'x' ring hole does not change the score.

Third, similar to point two, there are rules. Rules may not be changed anytime during the conduct of a match to accommodate those who do not shoot as well as others. On this note, those shooters with highly paid attorneys do not shoot better than those who do not. The rules are so limiting. As an example, one may not shoot into the observation gallery as a 'form of legitimate self-expression.'

Fourth, there are winners, and therefore, losers. The one with the most points wins. That means the one who worked the hardest at learning to shoot; the one who kept his firearm in the best shape; the one who paid the most attention to his ammunition; the one who maintained the greatest degree of self-control and self-discipline beat those who did not. Winners are not rotated. Not everyone is guaranteed to win at some point in the seasonal cycle.

So, those are the reasons liberals don't like shooting, and therefore, guns. Personal responsibility and discipline; Standards and values; Inviolate Rules; Self-esteem must be earned. Stuff like that just does not appeal to liberals. And then, there's that 'stand on their own two feet' thing.

But come to think of it, the objections to target shooting overlap some other disciplines, doesn't it?
 

Brick

New member
You're on a roll.

Regarding the history class, you brought to the spotlight the left's disdain for truth and reason, logic and common sense.

We're really smarter, we're really still in charge and to prove it, we'll sabotage the government and destroy the economy to show how bad Republicans really are.

Of course, that's how Leftists think. Kerry was just another person who confirmed those observations.


First off, the whole discipline is based on personal responsibility.

Agreed. You have criminals suing victims for harm, collision participants suing each other, etc. Of course, logically, all you have to pay for is the property damage, not moral damage.

But liberals have no one to sue when Granny dies of old age.
eek7.gif


Fourth, there are winners, and therefore, losers

Whoops
color_.gif
...One winner, many losers....
 

progunner1957

Moderator
Why liberals/socialists/academics hate guns and gun owners

It seems to me that the liberal/socialist/academic hatred of guns, shooting sports, self defense and the military comes from one root cause: Their hatred of men and maleness.

In the world of academia which is the spawning ground and incubator of socialism/liberalism, America and all things American are vile and evil. The Founding Fathers of our nation are evil opressors. The patriots who laid down fire on the Brits who came to disarm them are evil; so are cowboys, soldiers, and any other male figure who all have two common traits: 1.) They are "men's men", the essence of manhood, and 2.) They invariably keep and bear arms. In addition, they all have beliefs that are not for sale, that they will not compromise and will quickly and willingly defend with blows of the fists or with gunfire.

In the world of academia, females who seek and wield power over others are considered good; males who seek and wield power over others are evil. Power and achievement in this world are measured by academic degrees, with the PhD. being the holy grail.

In the liberal/socialist/academic worldview, only those with the highest academic credentials should be put in positions of power; integrity, morality and patriotism are of no consequence. These attributes are in fact viewed as disqualifiers. Hence, Bill Clinton is the ultimate model of what a president should be and George W. Bush is a despised and smallminded sideshow.

Males are required to shed any vestiges of manhood which they may yet have and take on the mindset of neutered sheep.

In the liberal/socialist/academic envoronment, it is a losing proposition to be a traditional male; conservatives, gun owners and especially those who attend Christian churches are regarded with the contempt usually reserved for child molesters. Anything that the Founders of this nation believed in, sacrificed for and died for is considered evil, especially guns and gun ownership by the private citizen.
 
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Hal

New member
In the liberal/socialist/academic worldview, only those with the highest academic credentials should be put in positions of power;
And in what is possibly the highest irony of all, is the fact that once "they" get what they want,,,the .gov they put in place eliminates those very members first.

The common man in the US would do well to study Pol Pot.
 

rolling thunder

New member
them stinking liberals

Hmmmmm. Anyone that knows me well would definetely place me as a liberal. I am a 4th degree black belt. I love to shoot guns and do so frequently(sp?). I even had (and will soon have again) my own indoor rifle range. (sort of). I taught my wife and both my kids on the use, maintainence and proper use (for protection) of such.

I know this thread began using satire, however I also see how quickly this thread has tried to lump all liberals together as though we have the inbred traits of a labrador. Conservatives, liberals, the right the left and everyone in between have much more in common than they do that is different. To lay the blame of any firearm restrictions at the feet of any one group is, in my opinion, like saying that the right is responsible for all wars and the left is responsible for any dissention of any war.

We are all American's (of course I am speaking of the citizens of the USA), and as such we have become a coolage (sp?) of the right, the left and everything in between.

It is such an easy way out to point fingers and brand anyone in a particular issue when in fact, as I've said, we are all more alike than we are different and as such must collectively be responsible for any state we now find ourselves in.

I'm not a republic or a democrat. I am an independent with Libertarian leanings. I have conservative friends (and family) who hate guns and anything to do with them.

I find it ironic that anyone would lay claim that the "liberals" get their way over the conservatives when it is absolutely clear that conservatives are nearly entirely running the show.

No one person can be painted with a broad brush, if so, the color would have to be gray as nothing is as black and white as it may seem. That would be too simplistic to address the diversities that we all must work and play with as we go through life. A pointed finger can cause more damage (socially) than a pointed barrel. Which is sad when you consider that as American's we embrace diversity. But I'm simply a liberal (not my words but that of friends and family) gun-toting person who believes in personal responsibility and toleration of all walks of life.
 

MeekAndMild

New member
Rolling Thunder, you may be shocked to learn you might be less liberal than me and I consider myself to be a conservative. The trouble with labels is that most of us, I'd estimate 80-90% are actually pretty stodgy conservative in our attitude, though we may be more or less liberal in our ideas. But we are not left wing bomb throwers nor right wing baby killers. We are in the nameless, faceless middle of the road in most things.

The trouble with liberals per the story at the thread opening is they aren't real liberal day to day people so much as the bomb throwers who write the textbooks and who trained 'Mr. Jones' to teach. Something about sitting all day in that ivory tower makes a guy want to just go crazy and start blaming the mass of humanity for his own problems.
 

RickB

New member
Also, since shooting is a skill, it is inegalitarian. Shooting skill cannot be confiscated from someone who has "too much", and bestowed upon someone else who "needs it". The libs hate it when they can't take something from someone who earned it, and give it to someone who doesn't have the discipline, dedication, ambition, etc., to get it for themself.
 

rolling thunder

New member
You make some valid points there meekandmild. While I agree that most of us are the faceless many, it seems then that the extremist from both the right to the left are responsible for the labeling in an attempt to make everything black or white. I suppose, as a liberal, I don't mind the volleys going back and forth over me. I just felt that since "liberal" has become a bad word somehow in today's right society. I was just pointing out that no one fits so snugly in defining what the faults are of any group than the extremists from both sides.

"The libs hate it when they can't take something from someone who earned it, and give it to someone who doesn't have the discipline, dedication, ambition, etc., to get it for themself."

I won't bother telling you how much I've had to overcome to earn what I have. But discipline, dedication and ambition, (I don't know what the "etc;" actually defines) are not the sole traits of a conservative any more than it is to the left. As I said, most would label me a liberal. However my very livelyhood is TEACHING discipline, and dedication as well as instilling ambition; to conservatives, liberals and the "etc;".....

I'm usually an oddball in forums that talk about guns and politics in the same sentence, but the faceless many in the middle act as a buffer to an extent that I usually find a way to fit in anyway........peace
 

MeekAndMild

New member
The libs hate it when they can't take something from someone who earned it, and give it to someone who doesn't have the discipline, dedication, ambition, etc., to get it for themself.
That's not really a liberal characteristic so much as one of the kleptocracy coalition in charge of the DNC. For example Kurt Vonnegut is probably one of the closest things to a radical leftist liberal you can find, who isan't actually foaming at the mouth. But he wrote the classic 'leveling' story Harrison Bergeron. (BTW this was made into a really great movie, starring Sean Astin, in 1995.)

I think a major problem with the liberal 'intelligensia' (in other words, the 5% of leftist bomb throwers) is that they have a habit of trying to deconstruct everything from the traditional culture, RKBA just happens to be one of those things,
 

PaleRyder

New member
L. Neil Smith says liberals are afraid of fire. They want to ban guns, cigarettes, fireworks (I've heard).
They embrace environmentalism to shut down the oil companys who work with fire-based products, etc.

I think this is another part of the reasons already mentioned.
I love the satire, BTW.
 

rolling thunder

New member
plain stupid.

To boil everything down to "Liberals and conservatives" is just plain zombie-thinking. Yet people in forums tend to go on and on about those gun hating liberals when it was liberals that birthed this country to start with. It's just an easy cop-out to flame on the liberals rather than to really think about the things those who call themselves conservatives do not like about our country.

I'm a liberal. I LOVE guns and all things that go BOOM. I will defend the 2nd amendment with my very life if need be. Even if it is forced uopn me by people who would rather label those they disagree with as opposed to thinking on their own.
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
The Classic Liberalism extant at the time of our founding documents bears no relation to the modern American liberal of the Democratic Party. Polar opposites, actually.

If you do not see Government programs as the primary solutions for social problems, excluding consideration of private-sector involvement, you're not a modern American liberal. This is a major dividing line between today's version of "liberals" and "conservatives".

Enuf thread drift; more suitable elsewhere, obviously...

Art
 

DLoken

New member
"I know this thread began using satire, however I also see how quickly this thread has tried to lump all liberals together as though we have the inbred traits of a labrador."

Yeah, I find it disgusting at how liberals are demonized as these evil communist pedophile homosexuals who want to ruin the world.

Instead of labelling (Which makes you look like a moron) criticize people based on their ideas that you disagree with.


I am extremely pro-gun (I think the only firearms laws should be to regulate Machineguns per the NFA, get rid of the 1968 and 1986 nonsense. SBRs, SBS, AOW and supressors wouldn't be regulated. We would keep NICS and that's it).

I support complete legalisation of drugs, gay marraige, etc. Also I would like to see some sort of national healthcare system.

Instead of Bush's tax cuts, I would rather see us pay off the national debt (Instead of raising it to record levels like he has). I would like a constitutional amendment that would require the government to run with a balanced budget (Maybe make an exception for when we are in a declared state of war).

I am anti-war (In the sense of Iraq, I believe we should fight for defense of us and our allies only).

All in all I would say I am a liberal on the silly black and white American political spectrum; a social libertarian with a fiscally conservative side (In terms of being for a balanced budget).
 

FirstFreedom

Moderator
collision participants suing each other

the horror...the horror. I guess if someone runs a red light and kills your passenger, who is your wife/son/daughter, you just turn the other cheek? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Rollingthunder- thank you! Well said.
 
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