I hate to do this.... but I need AR advice.

[(BH)]

I know there are a thousand thread on here regarding this topic, it's basically the same as the ol' "What gun for my wife" and "Advice please, new 9mm" threads. I searched through the archive, but just couldn't get the answers I needed and I will probably have further questions. So I apologize in advance for another AR advice thread.

Here's the deal: I'm a handgun guy, that's my area of knowledge, but I love rifles too. I have owned an AK, SKS, and several hunting and plinking rifles, but never an AR, however I have shot a couple in the past. Lately I have really gotten the itch for a nice 16" AR carbine of some sort. I've looked at Bushmasters, DPMS, Olympic, M&P, and Doublestar. Being that I don't know rifle brands like I know handgun brands in terms of who to trust in terms of quality and reliability, naturally I'm drawn to the M&P due to my experiences with S&W handguns.

What should I know going into this purchase? What brands should I avoid? I don't want to end up the rifle equivalent of a Taurus auto. I'm curious about reliability, toughness, accuracy, features and resale value.

I know I want it to eventually have a quad rail, red dot and a few other odds and ends. Is it best to try and find a package type deal, or just buy basic and then mod it out myself?

Any advice would be helpful. I'm no newbie to guns, but I am very newbie to the AR world. There is a hole in my collection and it really needs to be filled with a good middle of the road carbine that I won't regret buying.

Oh and BTW... I'd like to keep it under $1000.

******Edit: Important question: I know I want one chambered in 5.56 for flexibility with .223. So if all of the ones i see on the web say .223, how can I tell if it's actually 5.56?

 

[superchi]

You'll probably get a thousand different opinions on the AR topic, so I would suggest going over to http://ar15.com and start browsing the AR15 section. There's a ton of threads on a ton of different AR-specific topics, and although there will be just as many opinions, it's at least piled into different sections for you to sort through.

In the end it's up to you to decide what's a good brand of upper/lower/optics/accessories/etc. because everyone will have their 2 cents to throw in, especially when it comes to AR15s

 

[Technosavant]

If you're keeping it under $1000, you're pretty well stuck in the "buy a basic one and mod it out later" land. Quality rail systems and so on won't be found on the sub-kilobuck guns.

Still, that doesn't mean you're talking junk. There's good rifles out there in that price range, all the more so now since the AR market crashed.

If you're buying retail, the brands I'd especially recommend would be S&W, Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, and CMMG. I doubt you'll find a Colt, Noveske, LMT, or similar mostly milspec rifle in your price range; we're talking commercial/LEO level here, and those are still good guns.

I'd stay away from Olympic; I've not read much good about them compared to others. Avoid Vulcan (aka Blackthorne and Hesse) like the plague. They're pure crap. DPMS isn't awful, but your budget allows for more.

I'm sure other posters will be along to blast my recommendations (except for Vulcan, like I said, they're garbage).

So, what features should you look for? Really, you won't be picking from a bunch- I'd lean towards a flat top receiver with a detachable carry handle/rear sight; that gives you the most flexibility on down the road. For now I'd steer clear of "optics ready" rifles without any sights- while they're good for guys intending to mount quality optics right away, you won't find a rifle and a good optic for $1000, and you'll still need backup iron sights (decent ones will usually run you at least $150*). You can add things later, the AR platform is great for that.

There's a whole wealth of options if you decide to build your own, but that isn't the best option for the beginner.

*Magpul MBUS can be had for less, but the front sight is NOT intended for gas block mounting, which is what is usually available on a optics ready model.

 

[superchi]

As far as under $1000, there are some good options for "mid tier" rifles

Getting a good quality complete basic rifle is not difficult at all nowadays. Like Technosavant said, manufacturer's like Colt and LMT will probably be above your price range, but not by far.

I have an almost complete LMT rifle with the bare upper around $500 and the LMT defender lower for $300. Add in a bolt carrier group of your choice (good quality can be had for under $200, I went with Denny's Guns super duty BCG), a basic M4 handguard, and a rear sight, and it'll probably be in the $1000-$1100 range. The LMT barrels are 1/7 twist, 5.56, and are chrome lined. On the other hand you can snag a Colt 6920 for around $1200-$1300, and is a complete rifle, so you wouldn't have to go searching for parts.

S&W M&Ps I've seen have been priced around $800-$900. Express Police Supply has a promo going for the M&P15A for under $900 and get 5 free Magpul PMags. It has all the standard features most people look for; 1/9 twist and a chrome lined 5.56/.223 barrel. It also comes with a Troy folding rear battle sight which is a $100 value. Other "mid tier" brands I'd consider are also like Technosavant mentioned -- Rock River Arms, CMMG, Bushmaster, and Stag. All of these manufacturers offer complete rifles with these similar features for under $900.

As far as accessories go, your best bet is to pick up just a plain jane, and build it the way you want to that way you're completely satisfied. Be prepared though, $1000 can quickly double depending on what kind of kit you run on your rifle and it can be very addictive

 

[riggins_83]

Are you looking for something with peep sights or are you wanting optics?

Though I like DPMS I don't care for the fact many of their barrels are not chrome lined. That being said I've owned them and never had issues.

Impactguns.com has a Bushmaster 16" AR15 with a fixed carry handle and peep sights for $955 ( http://www.impactguns.com/store/604206022448.html ). They also have a 20" "target" version of the same rifle for $1000.

Important question: I know I want one chambered in 5.56 for flexibility with .223. So if all of the ones i see on the web say .223, how can I tell if it's actually 5.56?

Since 5.56 is higher pressure if the gun is rated for 5.56 it will be fine with .223. If it's only listed from the manufacturer as .223 you cannot safely fire 556. Some sales websites will generalize this, calling the manufacturer will get you a firm answer.

The big thing you want to get is good magazines too. Non tilt follower magazines should be all that's in your arsenal, they're well worth it.

There are plenty of other companies which make good rifles such as Colt, Rock River, Wilson, etc. I still feel for the money Bushmaster is one of the better choices. They're very well made, for less than $1000 you'll get a crome lined barrel, forward assist, dust cover and still have a rifle which feels the way an AR should. I'd recommend staying away from Olympic Arms.. they're rather the bottom of the barrel.

I've also noticed many stores (at least around here) are asking very high prices for ARs. Websites like Impactguns.com have pretty good prices (I paid about $300 less for my Bushmaster there versus the largest local non chain store) and have good stock too. No, I don't work for them I'm just a big fan.

 

[RT]

ARs are not hard to "assemble" if you buy a complete lower and complete upper. The lower must be transferred through a FFL. The upper, bolt carrier group, charging handle, rear sight/ optic, and handguard/ rail can be sent directly to your house.
If I was gonna buy my first AR, I think I would get a BCM midlength upper and put it on a BCM or LMT lower.

You may find these websites interesting

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/
http://www.gandrtactical.com/
http://global-tactical.com/index.aspx
http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/start.aspx
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/index
http://www.noveskerifleworks.com/
And since you're from TN,
http://www.sabredefence.com/

 

[Quentin2]

Good info posted already. Of the ones you mentioned I think the S&W M&P-15 is of better quality and you can get it in the $900 range. And S&W has a promotion on right now where you get 5 free magazines when you get their AR (mail in offer).

Really the best way to go is build it yourself especially when you don't want a plane jane M4. That way you can get the rail right off instead of having to replace stuff down the road.

I built up a S&W M&P-15 lower then added an ArmaLite midlength upper and M4 style buttstock which cost me $760. Completing the rifle with a carry handle (bought used), sling and one magazine brought the price up to about $850. Pretty hard to get a quality midlength any cheaper than that.


"sub-kilobuck gun" - I like that, Technosavant!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My personal checklist in buying an AR:

1. Is the carrier key staked? If so, is it staked according to the TM or by some alternative method?

2. What kind of chamber does it have? (Must be 5.56 or a hybrid chamber like Wylde)

3. I prefer a stock trigger to a match trigger

4. Must be flattop - you can always add a detachable carry handle to a flattop easily; but removing a carry handle receiver means a receiver swap.

5. Unless I have some special purpose in mine, I want a pinned, fixed front sight block (F-marked and proper height for flattop)

6. No HBARs - unless you are shooting Service Rifle, that is just dead weight for the most part. I prefer the lighter profile barrels; but with a normal A2 step in the barrel.

7. Extractor should have 4-coil extractor spring and black insert. It isn't a huge thing; but it will tell you right away about the manufacturer's level of attention to detail.

8. Receiver endplate on telestocks should be staked.

9. I prefer the midlength gas systems in 14.5-16" barrels, rifle gas systems in 17" and longer barrels. Carbine gas systems in 10.5-12.5" barrels. Nothing shorter than 10.5" ever.

10. 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel.

 

[a7mmnut]

You will spend every bit of your grand on the DPMS A3, Bushmaster, S&W, etc., or you can outshoot them at the range with a cheap Olyarms K16 like this for $700:



-7-

 

[Skyyr]

DO NOT get an Olympic Arms or a Vulcan Arms rifle.

Those are literally the bottom-barrel brands with poor QC and craftsmanship. Just last week, someone on the ar15.com forums had their Olympic lower-receiver break in half after a FTF then FTE. This isn't uncommon. They cut corners and costs more than anyone else.

Spend a few dollars more and get a quality AR.

 

[jeffatus]

I would second most everything Technosavant said. One thing to consider, over the life of your gun, you will spend hundreds of dollars on ammo, optics, cleaning supplies, etc. etc. etc. Spend $200 more dollars now and just get a Bravo Co., LMT, or a Colt. You will be ensured that all the springs, doodads, chrome barrels, bolt carriers, thingamagigs, etc. are done to the military specifications or better. Also, a Colt will have the best resale bar none. Not that LMT or Bravo Co (BCM) are not as good, but EVERYONE knows the Colt name and knows they have the guvment contract.

To contradict myself, I know lots of folks who own the other manufacturers that Technosavant mentioned and have not had a lick of trouble. Just make sure you shop around for the best price. My local store still has a Colt 6920 for $1800 . I have seen them for as low as $1,150 online. S&W AR's are great guns and good prices online, the only problem I have with them is that I have yet to see a 1 in 7 twist barrel from them. They do a great job on their AR's though.

As far as the barrel goes, if you get a 1 in 9 twist, you will not be able to stabilize the heavier bullets (over 55 or 62 grains). Get a 1 in 7 twist barrel and you will not be limited....and I second a chrome lined barrel (not chrome molly).

So, to recap what I would get regardless of manufacturer:
- Flat top receiver (with rail and may come with removable carry handle)
- Chrome lined barrel (not chrome molly)
- 1 in 7 twist (not and absolute if you are ok with 55 grain bullets, which is mostly whats available/cheaper)
- 5.56 chamber
- a good BCG (bolt carrier group), this seems to often be the weakest link in an AR and will most often, next to the magazine, be the culprit behind an AR malfunction when you need it most.
- good magazines (can't go wrong with Magpul, shop the price though, my local store has them for $24 yet you can get them online for $15 or less)

Like someone else mentioned, go to AR15.com and this stuff is gone over and beaten like a dead horse.



Good luck
jeff

 

[riggins_83]

Bushmaster is now using non tilt followers in all factory AR magazines

 

[RT]

Whichever rifle you decide to get... buy lots of PMags.

 

[(BH)]

^^^ Ha that's funny. I just clicked back onto TFL from doing a bit of bargain hunting for PMags. Bravo Company seems to have some good deals all around and PMags are $15. I didn't see any cheaper than that.

 

[Skyyr]

http://www.aimsurplus.com

$14

 

[(BH)]

Touche

 

[cjmorgan00]

I was in the same predicament befor. I then got mp15 m.o.e and some rail peices for the handguard. I love the thing, you can't go wrong. Btw it was 950.00

 

[Quentin2]

You're getting advice to go with the 1:7 twist which is good if you'll be normally using heavier longer ammo. If you'll normally be at 69 grains and lower (the cheaper ammo) then think about 1:9.

You can fire ammo not in the sweet spot of either barrel type but accuracy will suffer. 1:8 is a good compromise, BTW. It's important to research barrel twist and get what works best for you.

 

[a7mmnut]

I'd like to stop and throw back some large rocks, but I'm too busy shooting during the Fall. Buy what you want. Gun snobs will always be just that, but never a shooter.


-7-

 

[WeedWacker]

Building is they way to go to keep cost down. I picked up a RRA complete lower for $280 and got a Del-ton M4gery upper with YHM low profile gas block, chrome bore, and YHM rifle length free float quad rail (had to call to them and ask for it) for $600-$700. Took me three months to get it together but it was worth it. I just recently put another 300-400 into it for new stock, grip, rail panels, flip up sights, and harris bipod adapter. Shoots like a dream.

Del-ton has a long waiting period for rifles now, thanks to the gun salesman of the year, but it's one of the cheapest ways to get a quality budget custom job for an AR.

http://www.del-ton.com/


ETA: Skimmed and didn't see anyone reply, but the rifle chambered in 5.56 will have it stamped on the barrel. A lower may say 5.56 but if the upper isn't chambered for it those numbers mean squat.