"I forgot"

[James K]

In Virginia, an elementary school art teacher who has a CCW license forgot and left her revolver in her backpack when she went to work. (Schools are "prohibited carry areas" for CCW holders.) She left the backpack unattended and another teacher opened it, found the gun, and reported her. (Yes, snoops are everywhere!)

Now the teacher faces a possible five year sentence, and likely at a minimum, the loss of her job. The Commonwealth's Attorney says it is "a big concern" and that "children had potential access to that gun." Sounds like he is planning to ride this one to higher office.

Just an example of the traps that await CCW carriers; the moral is, "don't forget."

Jim

 

[Gwinnydapooh]

That'll teach the predators to stay away from that school!

Seriously though, while the firestorm that's coming will surely be out of all proportion to the mistake, leaving your loaded gun in your backpack in an elementary school is not a small error. BAD idea. Bad enough that backpack carry might have to be abandoned. I wouldn't want to carry a gun off my body unless I really HAD to.

 

[KOG]

What a crock of ****. I'm so sick of people who have no care in the world for their own personal safety denying others their right to protect themselves. Gee, if someone's a bad guy, I wonder where they're going to go wreak havoc? Someplace where they know law-abiding citizens will be unarmed, like Virginia schools.

I wonder what the response would be if a bad guy did show up and she used that gun to defend herself and the kids. She'd still probably be hung out to dry and the anti gunners would say that she should have just agreed to be raped and murdered in front of the kids.

And what's with someone snooping in someone else's stuff? Who cares what was in there, the other person had no business looking in someone else's stuff. The dumb*ss attorney says, "children had access to that gun". Well, if they were taught firearms safety, that wouldn't be a concern now would it?

If some kid had gotten hold of the gun, there would probably be a big*as lawsuit against the teacher for having a gun accessible to kids. However, I think that parents have the responsibiliy to teach their kids gun safety even if they aren't into guns. To me, it would be as much the parents' fault for not teaching their kids gun safety as it is the teacher's fault for accidentally bringing a gun to school. One has to be responsible for their own actions as only the gov will pretend to be responsible for you.

So sick of narrow-minded people looking at only one side of a situation that can have many sides. I do agree with Gwinny, though. The gun should be carried on the person, not in a purse or backpack in the event you get separated from it, it's useless. Even if you don't get separated from it, it's harder to draw from a backpack than it is from IWB.

I say, "don't forget" your gun, take it with you, you might need it. Better to be tried by 12, well you know.

 

[Matt VDW]

The school should handle this situation the way the Marine Corps would: scream in the teacher's face, have her run a few laps around the school, and then make her sleep with her weapon for a week.

 

[Kief]

Just read in an education journal that "media has assinated youth by over dramatizing the school shooting over and over again to the point that the public is now afraid of youth and therefore they cannot be trusted with a firearm". There have always been mentally unbalanced youth who commit crimes, just like adults. Youth no longer have the freedom some of us enjoyed, because media characterizes youth as drug addicted violent uncontrollable savages. This is not true. As always, 10% of the youth commit 90% of the crimes. Just like adults. Because of the actions of 10% the 90% get their rights taken away.
The teacher was dumb to take the loaded gun to school when the rules prohibit it because of the political climate. Work to change the rule. Lets get the 90% of the kids involved and educated about firearms. They are our future.

 

[Trigger Jerk]

I used to teach a hunter safety course in the small town of about 400 where I live. The logical and about the only place accessible to teach the class was the local school.
When I started teaching the class, I had no idea that guns were not allowed on school premises for any reason. Fortunately we had a good (one with common sense) superintendent, and he "looked the other way" when I taught the class. He has since retired and the new super isn't quite as reasonable. To give you an idea, he suspended a kid last year for bringing a spent and crushed (by a car) shotgun shell to school that the child found while walking to school. My son (9years old) also tells me that they can't wear any clothing with pictures of, or logo's of guns or gun companies.

They can dye their hair purple, paint their lips black, scream at the teachers, wear "Marylin Manson" T shirts, but they cant wear a t shirt with the S&W logo.

Just makes me truly wish I could home school.

 

[Ford]

I'll tell you what, I'm one of the biggest Pro-gun people you will ever meet. BUT if I knew that some irresponsable teacher had left a loaded gun out where my little boy could get to it, I would be HOT! I mean these are elementary school kids we are talking about. My son is only 2 but still I teach him you leave mommy and daddy's guns alone (yes they are locked up)and with his play guns that you dont point them at people ,etc...But all of the kids in school some of there parents maybe anti-gun or just not really care about guns at all and not teach them a thing and thisa insnt a course I see them teaching in school because some parents, some I know never want there kids to touch a gun at all. So just back up for a minute because this teacher was WRONG. Now Will the press and every one else blow this completely out of proportion? OH HELL YES!! It was an Honest mistake, beyond whatever happens to the teacher legally I think just some time off without pay would be plenty enough punishment.

 

[James K]

Hi, KOG,

If you are in VA, you can take your complaint to the State Legislature. You can rant all you want about what you think should be the law, but those who violate it, whether through carelessness or criminal intent, have to deal with the law as it is, not as you would like it to be.

Jim

 

[GI Loveguns]

Originally posted by KOG:
>>>>>>snip>>>>>>
I wonder what the response would be if a bad guy did show up and she used that gun to defend herself and the kids. She'd still probably be hung out to dry and the anti gunners would say that she should have just agreed to be raped and murdered in front of the kids.

A couple of years ago, in Pearl Mississippi, (about 50 miles from my house) a high school freak named Luke Woodham took a .22 to school & shot several kids, killing two girls, one of whom was his estranged girlfriend. He did this only after killing his mother at his home (I believe he used a knife or blunt instrument on her). The assistant principal, hearing the shots, retrieved his .45 pistol from his car & held ol' Luke for the cops. Woodham was in his car at the time, trying to leave the scene. The assistant Principal was basically heralded as a hero for about a week or so, then his 15 minutes were up. But, there are still local news stories every so often about the shootings, the trial, & alleged co-conspirators. Just goes to show that the good guys fade into the background while the trash gets the exposure. This little prick will probably end up selling his fingerpaintings from prison & becoming a celebrated artist or some such crap as that. It truly is a rotten state of affairs...

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

This is a bad mistake on several levels. I feel sure that, in the anti-gun climate that the media, celebrities, and politicians have fostered, this lady will pay dearly for this lapse of judgement. However, I do understand her wanting to have the means to protect herself when the need arises. Personally, I do carry in places that have the little sign posted. In a place that forbids firearms I use discretion. (And a pocket pistol.) Some of the new .32's can hide quite nicely in the front pocket of my jeans. This lady should have had more control of her armament. (Like a discrete holster somewhere.) I feel sorry for her. She will probably be made an example.

Will

------------------
Mendacity is the system we live in.

 

[Libertarian]

I would not care if she was my mother, wife or sister (none of them would be so careless). If she left a pistol laying about where kids could access it, she is in the S***! It is not only (wrongly) illegal but careless and stupid. We do not need anymore of these bumbling fools leaving their pistols where they are accessable by anyone.

Please remember this. A few months ago everyone took turns trashing some poor schmuck janitor who did nearly the same thing. Where is the parity? Is it because she is a teacher and woman? I hope that is not the case. I would be ashamed to think so.

 

[etc]

The first thing they teach you in any cc course is that after completing the course and signing the affidavits is that you can no longer use "I dont know" or "I forgot".

The real crock of doo doo is that anyone with half the sense God gave a stump would in any way support this lack of responsibility.

All of the "what if" senerios mean nothing in this real world case.

I cant beleive that as long and as hard we have fought for concealed carry laws that people actually think this is no big deal and ok----you might as well be the Willie Horton poster child for gun owners.

And yes,she should be fired and charged.

This is not tolerable,anywhere,anytime.

The End.

 

[fubsy]

Ive not yet heard where her backpack was, was it secured in teachers only area?, in a desk or closet that only the teachers had the keys for?.......what are the facts other than she had a gun on school property, that someone located by going through here stuff....fubsy.

 

[Rome]

I wholeheartedly agree that leaving a firearm unattended in public in an item like a backpack, purse, or paperbag for that matter is totally irresponsible. I also know that a child, in a public school building, has no reasonable expectation of total privacy. The school administration has the right to ensure the safety of all students and can look into random lockers and check backpacks at the door if they wish. I don't know, however, if this privacy issue extends to the teachers themselves. It's not like this teacher dropped her backpack and the gun spilled out onto the floor. Someone had to actually open it and find it. How many cop shows do we have to see before we understand the concept of illegal search? I wonder if her lawyer will be able to defeat this case by having the gun discovery tossed out? Someone illegaly searched her backpack and invaded her privacy.

I agree also, however, that if you cc, you'd better make it is concealed, period. There are a ton of options available, iwb, bra holsters, etc., etc., that could have been utilized instead of just in a backpack. This situation will open a hornets' nest which is the last kind of publicy we need.
Rome

 

[KOG]

Jim, I'm not in VA and like you said, you can scream until the cows come home and they won't change a thing. I do see everyone's point about the teacher being careless in taking that gun to school so I guess I have to eat some crow with my previous response.

That carelessness stems from the fact that she didn't know that she had it with her. She broke the law by taking a gun to school; that's bad. However, it's worse when she didn't know she had it with her.

Leaving the kids out of it, she should know where that gun is all the time lest it get lost or taken by a criminal. I do think that kids should be taught gun safety at an early age along with other helpful life lessons.

One of the elementary schools I was at had a table where you could eat snacks. They left out extremely sharp steak knives so that the kids could cut their own fruit. No one took those knives and went around stabbing people with it because we were taught to be careful with knives and you don't go around hurting other people.

If a gun is left out, while it's not a bright thing to do, if a kid knows not to touch it and leave it alone, hopefully, you don't have to worry about it until the bad guy comes around and takes it. If a parent is not into using drugs, should they educate their kids about not using them? I would hope so, the same could be said of guns.

I also think the no-gun law at school is dumb because it announces to the criminals that this is a good, safe place to hit. I read of a story of a teacher in Kalifornia who was beaten and raped right in her own classroom before school started. Maybe a gun would have helped, maybe not. But, the bad guy knew that anyone at this school would be unarmed and an easy target.

But like one of the other posts said about a principal that stopped a bad guy with his personal gun, it's sad that this school probably wouldn't be all up in arms if something bad did happen and this teacher's gun helped save the day.

 

[skeeter]

KOG

There was an interesting psychological experiment where a group of children age approx. 5 to 8 were given a full 1 hour coarse in gun safety. They were taught that if they found a gun they should not touch it but rather go and tell an adult right away. They all said they would do that. Later that day they were placed in a play room with cameras placed through a hidden viewing port. Several very real looking guns were placed under their toys.The guns were found soon and approx. 90% of the boys started playing with them and pointing them at their friends while saying Bang, Bang. They were fascinated by them and could not resist playing with them. The results for the girls was less and I do not remember the figures. The point is that kids are kids and kids do not understand death and the real danger of guns.They are impulsive and curious. I believe that even if younger children are taught gun safety they should not counted on the act more mature than their age.This experiment clearly showed that.
This teacher was grossly irresponsible. She placed the children in danger. If she was not going to carry on her person the gun should have had a trigger lock.There is nothing in the world more precious than our children and there is no excuse for this.

 

[KOG]

I agree that kids are naturally curious and sometimes more likely to do the opposite of what you tell them.

The girls in that study you mentioned probably didn't play with the guns because little girls usually play with dolls, not trucks, tanks, and guns. The boys in the study probably didn't think the gun was real and since it was placed with other toys, probably thought it was a toy.

Where do you draw the line? Should kids be prevented from playing with toy guns altogether? Some of them look darn real to me. I remember having some pretty realistic toy guns as a kid that even had "bullets" you put into a magazine.

It definitely is up to the adults to have the responsibility, but even if futile, I don't think it's a bad idea to try and educate and give some semblance of responsibility to kids when they're young.

I guess this individual should have just left the gun in her car or better yet at home. What sucks about that is that with Murphy's Law, you are going to need that gun when you are in one of those places that you aren't allowed to have it.

 

[Rome]

Children have to be protected from themselves until they have reached that magic "age of reason". We have a myriad of laws enacted to protect very young kids against their basic instinct to explore their surroundings. Swimming pools have to have fences or ladders that are pulled up. We lable poisenous liquids with skulls and crossbones and have "childproof" caps on virtually everything that can be injested. Toys can't have small parts on them. Heck, even 5 gallon pails are'nt save around babies any more. Guns & knives are interesting to little kids, especially at age 5 and 6. The experiment that was conducted simply confirms this and proves that kids of this age simply don't have the ability to understand the harm they are putting themselves into. That's why we have locks and lock boxes. Now, older kids, 7 yrs and up, are another story. They CAN take and understand instructions. Just out of curiosity, how many of you out there who have kids at home lock every single bottle of booze up? Not many. That's because kids can be told that this is bad for them and can be expected to comply. I'd like to see that same experiment done with older kids, age 7-10. Yes, you'll still get the hell- raiser in any group who'd pick up a gun and wave it around. But I'll bet you'll also find the "level headed" kids who orders their friends not to touch the gun: go find the teacher. This is where training and Eddie Eagle will be most productive.

The current administration likes to use "anecdodal" situations to paint with a broad brush. This VA teacher will be used by anti-gun supporters to show just how careless all we gun owners are. We simply have to be protected from ourselves and we have to protect the general public and I'm sure they'll use the phrase that makes my stomach turn, "for the children". Nevermind the fact that literally millions of citizens are careful, responcible gun users and carriers. But, if you try to show support for ourside using anecdotes showing that CCWs have save thousands from harm or injury, we are told that these are "anecdotal instances" and don't truly reflect society at large. Antigunners play both ends of this game leaving us out in the cold. It is really a sad state of affairs. Logic and debate no longer dictates issues and laws are being passed left and right based on "feelings" rather than common sense.

I'll get off my soapbox now. It is just a tragedy in VA especially in light of the terrific strides VA has made with the help of the NRA.
Rome

[This message has been edited by Rome (edited March 10, 2000).]

 

[George Hill]

Just say NO! to OFF BODY CARRY.

DONT DO IT.

IWB is the best method - its not comfortable and its not always easy... but it is the best safety wise.

Gun Commandment #5:
No Off Body Carry.

 

[Zensho]

One more argument against off person carry. Pretty stupid.