Some of the recipe's I'm gettin don't list primers.Especially for large pistols.What's the deal with that? Are all large pistol that arent magnum the same? How bout small rifle, as long as it dont say small MAG does the brand name not matter? This was not my thinkin on the deal. And if that is the case, why do some recipe's name a certain primer? As some of you know I'm new, and I AINT WANTING TO GUESS which primers to use. Could use some input from a seasoned pro on this. It may not be a big deal, but I dont have enough experience to know any different or comfortably make this call. Thanks Kendo.
I didn't think primers were the same
- Thread starter Kendo
- Start date
Here's the skinny: They list primers in most data for the same reason they often list the barrel length and sometimes even the firearm that was used: they list it because it's relevant. Not necessarily because they expect or demand you to follow it by the letter. In fact, the primers they used are obviously going to be from a different manufacturing lot that you buy, so even if they are the same... they aren't exactly the same!
The idea behind paying attention to your primers and keeping track of what you have loaded in the past comes in to play when you are near or at MAX loads. It's not wise to build a max load and then just swap out a component and think "hey, it'll be fine." That's not a safe way to go about handloading.
You can develop a load that ends up at MAX (or eek, dare I say it... over max) and it may not show signs of high pressure. If you then just grab RemChester's new ulti-prime primers and stick them in there, you might find yourself with a dangerous problem.
The other reason to keep track of what primers you use is that in the event you come up with a rifle and a load that absolutely drives tacks and gives you 100 yard one-hole groups, and then you just randomly stick RemChester's new ulti-prime primers in there instead of the Federal you typically use, it might end up being a decent group at 100 yards, but no longer a one-holer.
So... when you look at load data, they aren't really saying "take a Remingon small rifle primer, and H335, and exactly xx.x grains of powder, and exactly a Nosler 50gr STHPBTSP bullet..." they are saying: Here, this is a load we've tested and it's safe and should be safe up to xx grains of this powder with this shape and weight bullet. Here's your data, use it to come up with a load that works for you.
Sorry, long answer when a short one would have worked.
The idea behind paying attention to your primers and keeping track of what you have loaded in the past comes in to play when you are near or at MAX loads. It's not wise to build a max load and then just swap out a component and think "hey, it'll be fine." That's not a safe way to go about handloading.
You can develop a load that ends up at MAX (or eek, dare I say it... over max) and it may not show signs of high pressure. If you then just grab RemChester's new ulti-prime primers and stick them in there, you might find yourself with a dangerous problem.
The other reason to keep track of what primers you use is that in the event you come up with a rifle and a load that absolutely drives tacks and gives you 100 yard one-hole groups, and then you just randomly stick RemChester's new ulti-prime primers in there instead of the Federal you typically use, it might end up being a decent group at 100 yards, but no longer a one-holer.
So... when you look at load data, they aren't really saying "take a Remingon small rifle primer, and H335, and exactly xx.x grains of powder, and exactly a Nosler 50gr STHPBTSP bullet..." they are saying: Here, this is a load we've tested and it's safe and should be safe up to xx grains of this powder with this shape and weight bullet. Here's your data, use it to come up with a load that works for you.
Sorry, long answer when a short one would have worked.
match primers
New to the reloading game and a Hello to all here. What is the difference in a Federal Gold Medal Match primer for a large rifle and a standard large rifle primer? I will be reloading a 270 win with a 130 grain bullet with h4831. Not real sure of exact bullet yet. But i have found some of the Fed match primers will they be ok to use in the set up. Most likely will use a nosler or hornady bulllet because that is what is available here. thanks Brent
New to the reloading game and a Hello to all here. What is the difference in a Federal Gold Medal Match primer for a large rifle and a standard large rifle primer? I will be reloading a 270 win with a 130 grain bullet with h4831. Not real sure of exact bullet yet. But i have found some of the Fed match primers will they be ok to use in the set up. Most likely will use a nosler or hornady bulllet because that is what is available here. thanks Brent
"Match" and "Bench rest" primers are supposed to be made with a higher quality control and consistency. Because of this, they are generally a bit pricier than normal primers.
If you find some now and you don't have a problem with the price they have on them, they are perfectly fine and will work exactly as a normal, non-magnum primer.
If you find some now and you don't have a problem with the price they have on them, they are perfectly fine and will work exactly as a normal, non-magnum primer.
Are the primers you have Federal GM210M? If so, I think they are supposed to be more quality controlled than the standard primers. I guess Federal tries a little harder to ensure the priming pellet is more uniform in the Match primers.
Most folks say that unless you are a benchrest shooter shooting a benchrest rifle, you will likely not see any difference in the Match and standard.
I am of the opinion that if I am going to take the time to handload, I want the best components I can possibly get my hands on. I figure that if I use the best components I can find, that takes away a variable. I have a load I am working up for my 270 that includes the following:
Remington cases, trimmed to 2.520", flash holes deburred, primer pockets uniformed.
Federal GM210M primers
60.0gr of H4831 (CAREFUL!!!THIS IS MAX LOAD!!!!!
)
Barnes 130gr Tipped TSX bullet.
I am still in the preliminary phases of working this load up. I have established the powder charge, but I am still working on different bullet seating depths. I started at .050" off the lands because that is what Barnes reccommends with the TSX bullets. It will consistently shoot 1.25" at 100yds. I am hoping that moving the bullet closer to the lands might tighten those groups up a bit, but it has been too windy for me to go shoot rifle. It will be an excellent whitetail load as it stands right now, but I enjoy shooting and I will keep trying to squeeze a little more accuracy out of it until I hit 1" or get tired of fooling with it.
Most folks say that unless you are a benchrest shooter shooting a benchrest rifle, you will likely not see any difference in the Match and standard.
I am of the opinion that if I am going to take the time to handload, I want the best components I can possibly get my hands on. I figure that if I use the best components I can find, that takes away a variable. I have a load I am working up for my 270 that includes the following:
Remington cases, trimmed to 2.520", flash holes deburred, primer pockets uniformed.
Federal GM210M primers
60.0gr of H4831 (CAREFUL!!!THIS IS MAX LOAD!!!!!
)Barnes 130gr Tipped TSX bullet.
I am still in the preliminary phases of working this load up. I have established the powder charge, but I am still working on different bullet seating depths. I started at .050" off the lands because that is what Barnes reccommends with the TSX bullets. It will consistently shoot 1.25" at 100yds. I am hoping that moving the bullet closer to the lands might tighten those groups up a bit, but it has been too windy for me to go shoot rifle. It will be an excellent whitetail load as it stands right now, but I enjoy shooting and I will keep trying to squeeze a little more accuracy out of it until I hit 1" or get tired of fooling with it.
The differences as I have been told...
I would't count on all primers of a certain grade to be identical.... that is, say, all large pistol standard primers. Each company may have their own recipe for the mixture, one companies mix might be a bit hotter or not as hot, that is why you shouldn't change brands of primer (especially at or near max loads) without due caution (back off the powder & test up again) It may be fine, it may KABOOM your gun!
Say large pistol, for example..... naturally they are spec size, so all will fit all cases the same, all will fire the round..... the main difference is the mixture, the quality of the mixture, the potency of the mixture, the consistency of the mixture & the skill of the dude applying the mixture.
Evidently, the high quality bench rest & match primers, the person applying the mixture has to have 5 years experience at doing the job to become qualified to work on the top end primers (they have to really know what they are doing)
I reload 44 mag, normally I use large pistol mag primers, but I havent seen any lately, nor even large pistol primers, so I am forced to use large rifle primers..... I really cant tell the difference, they work.
Primers are designed with a mixture to 'best/efficiently' ignite a certain amount of powder expected to be in a case. For example, large pistol primers are designed for say, 44 special/Russian.... mag for the magnums (more powder) so bigger flash. So, if you use a LPmag primer in a 44 russian, and you are at the max load with the large pistol primer, the mag primer may/will take the load over the max load reccommended. If you are at the max load with 44 russian/special with a mag primer, and you start using (all you can get) large pistol primers, the load is/will become under the max load. (you might need to make up the difference in powder)
If you use a large rifle magnum primer in a 44 special..... you will have to back off the powder a fair bit, as the LR Mag primer is designed to flare up big enough to light up a huge rifle load of powder (probably a 44 special with a LRMP would fire a shot without powder?)
From what I have been forced to use, large rifle primers (not mag) appear to be about the same as a large pistol mag primer (they light approximately the same amount of powder)
As someone said earlier, and as I said above.... the worry is if you are at or near the max load with standard primers, then have to use mag primers (all you can get or by choice) the mag primer will boost the pressure conciderably, so be aware.
When the difference is most noteable is when extreme accuracy is required, for CAS and plinking, any primer that makes my gun go bang & hit a plate is fine by me.... I just use a full case of Trail Boss anyway.... no probs.
If you are shooting targets at 500 yards with large rifle, or hunting at longish distances, choice of primer and matching powder equality of everything to the absolute becomes critical. If you have to use a less than desireable primer, just make sure you dont over do the load, and keep the rounds all together marked in batches, so at least they are constant.
Oh, and one other difference between rifle & pistol primers can be the shape of the anvil & the hardness of the primers metal cup.... generally rifles have a heavier hammer/pin strike than pistols (not always) so the pistol range of primers are designed to go off with a lighter strike from the hammer (the metal cup is softer & anvil/mixture to suit). If your pistol has a weakish hammer strike, it might have trouble setting off a rifle primer (might need a second strike)
I would't count on all primers of a certain grade to be identical.... that is, say, all large pistol standard primers. Each company may have their own recipe for the mixture, one companies mix might be a bit hotter or not as hot, that is why you shouldn't change brands of primer (especially at or near max loads) without due caution (back off the powder & test up again) It may be fine, it may KABOOM your gun!
Say large pistol, for example..... naturally they are spec size, so all will fit all cases the same, all will fire the round..... the main difference is the mixture, the quality of the mixture, the potency of the mixture, the consistency of the mixture & the skill of the dude applying the mixture.
Evidently, the high quality bench rest & match primers, the person applying the mixture has to have 5 years experience at doing the job to become qualified to work on the top end primers (they have to really know what they are doing)
I reload 44 mag, normally I use large pistol mag primers, but I havent seen any lately, nor even large pistol primers, so I am forced to use large rifle primers..... I really cant tell the difference, they work.
Primers are designed with a mixture to 'best/efficiently' ignite a certain amount of powder expected to be in a case. For example, large pistol primers are designed for say, 44 special/Russian.... mag for the magnums (more powder) so bigger flash. So, if you use a LPmag primer in a 44 russian, and you are at the max load with the large pistol primer, the mag primer may/will take the load over the max load reccommended. If you are at the max load with 44 russian/special with a mag primer, and you start using (all you can get) large pistol primers, the load is/will become under the max load. (you might need to make up the difference in powder)
If you use a large rifle magnum primer in a 44 special..... you will have to back off the powder a fair bit, as the LR Mag primer is designed to flare up big enough to light up a huge rifle load of powder (probably a 44 special with a LRMP would fire a shot without powder?)
From what I have been forced to use, large rifle primers (not mag) appear to be about the same as a large pistol mag primer (they light approximately the same amount of powder)
As someone said earlier, and as I said above.... the worry is if you are at or near the max load with standard primers, then have to use mag primers (all you can get or by choice) the mag primer will boost the pressure conciderably, so be aware.
When the difference is most noteable is when extreme accuracy is required, for CAS and plinking, any primer that makes my gun go bang & hit a plate is fine by me.... I just use a full case of Trail Boss anyway.... no probs.
If you are shooting targets at 500 yards with large rifle, or hunting at longish distances, choice of primer and matching powder equality of everything to the absolute becomes critical. If you have to use a less than desireable primer, just make sure you dont over do the load, and keep the rounds all together marked in batches, so at least they are constant.
Oh, and one other difference between rifle & pistol primers can be the shape of the anvil & the hardness of the primers metal cup.... generally rifles have a heavier hammer/pin strike than pistols (not always) so the pistol range of primers are designed to go off with a lighter strike from the hammer (the metal cup is softer & anvil/mixture to suit). If your pistol has a weakish hammer strike, it might have trouble setting off a rifle primer (might need a second strike)
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That'll Do
New member
Sevens said:
It was an excellent answer that wasn't too long at all. It would be great if a mod could add your post to the sticky for new reloaders.
Death from Afar
New member
Primer selection is very important with shotshells as an aside. If you look at the LUP generated by different primers, there uis an astonishing difference. Since Shotguns can handle only lower pressures thana rifle, primer selection is critical.