Hunting,Felons,Note State Laws!

[HiBC]

Maybe I should have put this in "Hunting"

I am not a lawyer,and I am not telling you you can or cannot do anything.

I was listening to the radio half asleep,this went by once,and I did not take notes.It was an outdoors show,talking about hunting.A call in question about hunting and felons and buying hunting licenses came up.

The radio host made some suggestions based on Federal law that archery and muzzleloader hunting may be possible under some circumstances for felons who had paid the debt.I DO NOT OFFER THIS AS ADVICE

This show is in Colorado.Soon a firearms savvy Colorado lawyer called in and said that while that may be true under Federal Law,under Colorado law,folks with a felony or domestic violence history would be commiting a Colorado felony if they held a bow or muzzle loader.He then pointed out that even to take a felon along hunting with you may amount to constructive possession.

Three guys and two shotguns in a goose pit,for example,the felon COULD pick up the shotgun.
This lawyer also suggested it was very likely ,if the game wardens computer showed up the felony,somebody would go to jail.
And the non-felon host might be prosecuted.

My intent in writing this thread:Not to give legal advice!

My background is clean,and I don't think about these things much.It surprised me that Colorado law was more restrictive than Federal law.

It would be very unfortunate if a person who had paid their debt and was trying to live clean found themselves with a new felony for just going along on a hunt to get out in the woods.....with no intent to hunt or hold a weapon.Maybe just be camp cook .

It would also be unfortunate for a hunting party to go bad because of the constructive possession/accessory possibilities.A lot of folks could be in trouble.

So,this is just a suggestion to clear things ahead of time.

 

[Pahoo]

Walking on thin ice !!!

Your point is well taken and each state seems to vary. Last year at our Hunter Inst. workshop, we were instructed not to accept any "known" felons, into our classes. In Iowa, anyone born after January-1, 1972, is required to have a Hunter Ed. certificate, in order to obtain a hunting license. Then recently a question was asked about archery and that was acceptable. ....

Begs the question of how, as instructors, are we suppose to make the cut and how can you just get an archery license when there is only one license that covers all weapons? I would suggest that if there is a question about hunting companion, it's probably for good reason and should pass on the hunt. On one hand, you don't want to be a snitch but on the other, you don't want to get busted, yourself. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Archery, yes. No problem there.

Airguns and muzzleloaders, more of a gray area.

First off, T/C Encore and similar are out.

But for non-4473 guns (most muzzleloaders, airguns) - these are by definition NOT "firearms" under federal law. But depending on the state, they may be and typically ARE "firearms" as that term is defined under state law.

Not sure how all this shakes out from there, but that's a starting point. I should think that most likely, therefore, under FEDERAL law, it is fine to hunt with such a muzzleloader or airgun. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's fine under the state law. Has to be OK under both, and that varies state to state.

Remember, there are airguns which are capable of taking large game out there (Barnes, etc.). It may be the case that in some states, such an airgun is allowed to a felon where a muzzleloader is not, and in other states, vice versa may be the case.

 

[Tom Servo]

Federal law (18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16)) exempts many black-powder guns from the definition of firearm. In theory, a person disqualified from owning firearms as defined by federal law can own them.

Several states have more restrictive definitions. For example, Georgia law defines a firearm as, "any handgun, rifle, shotgun, stun gun, taser, or other weapon which will or can be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or electrical charge."

Short answer: federal law isn't the problem, but state laws can be.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Even more confusing ... in my state black powder guns are not "firearms" for the purposes of purchase (I can buy a black powder 6-shooter through the mail or at Cabela's with no background check, no 4473 or state equivalent), but they ARE "firearms" for purposes of carry. So I can legally buy a BP revolver at Cabela's and drive home with it in a bag, but I can't subsequently take it out of the house without a carry permit.

 

[kraigwy]

Wyoming TOO, considers BP as firearms regarding felons. Not withstanding fed laws regarding BP.

Another caveat. Many states grant certain felons their gun rights. Some don't.

Regardless what the state says, you still have to apply to the Feds. If the state gives you back your rights chances are the feds will agree, but you still have to apply to the feds.

Friend of mine found that out the hard way. He stole a cow when he just turned 18, a felony. In his 40s he applied to the state and was giving his rights to own firearms back.

Alls well until the divorce. He won custody of the kids which PO'ed wife and she turned him into the feds. He did 5 years in Fed Prison.

He nor his lawyer knew he also had to get his gun right returned by the feds. All it would have taken would have been a letter to ATF attaching the letter from the State.

Divorce lawyers aren't the best source to consult regarding gun laws.

 

[HiBC]

Once again,I'm not a lawyer,do not take this as advice.

Doing a little research,there is a lot of opinion to be found on the archery question in Colorado,official information is not easy to find.Best I could do:Based on a "other weapon " clause in the Colorado law,it was the opinion of the Colorado Parks and Wildlife that felons could not posess archery equiptment,and could not archery hunt.

Once again,I'm not trying to run anyone off.I'm putting this out so folks can do their own research.

Best info I have found,its not hard to buy the hunting license if you are a felon.But archery equiptment ,while not a firearm,is included as "other deadly weapon"and possession by a felon is a felony.This is specific to Colorado.

I did uncover another little bit of info:I think this is part of the Fed law.Even if a felon might be legal to use a muzzle loader,he cannot possess modern primers.The 209 shotgun primer for an inline would ,as I understand it,be a felony.

Just a heads up!

 

[Paul B.]

"Another caveat. Many states grant certain felons their gun rights. Some don't."

This brings up an interesting point. My neighbor got into trouble quite a few years back, became a felon but his rights were restored shortly after completing his sentence. He has since restored his interest in shooting and hunting and plans an elk hunt in Colorado which I understand has severe restrictions on felon regarding hunt, that is if they're allowed to even do so. This brings up the question, would his Arizona court ordered restoration of rights even be recognized by other states? Arizona allows people with a CCW to buy firearms without having to call the FBI although Walmart calls them anyway. My neighbor wanted to but his rifle of choice there as it was the lowest price and the FBI denied the sale. Most gun shops here in town recognize the CCW and that's all it takes.
What's everybody's take on that situation?
Paul B.

 

[Pahoo]

The right hand may not know what the left hand is doing !!

Hope we are not confusing Gun rights with Hunting rights. Granted, the two are somewhat connected but really aren't equal. I think you really have to split hairs with the state agencies you have to deal with. For instance, a friend of mine has no problem obtaining a hunting license in Iowa and Colorado but could not get a CCW permit for Iowa and Colorado would honor that if he could get one. He is still working with his lawyer to get it cleared. ....

Be informed and;.
Be Safe !!!