HR 4205 could ruin your life

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Did a search & couldn't find any mention under the bill # ....

Pull it off of: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:3:./temp/~c106fBHrex:e114236:
for a fairly convoluted string to run down

or, goto: http://www.aero-news.net
(which took almost forever to load) for a much better laying it all down.

"This is Not a Drill:
HR 4205 Could Wreck Your Life
H.R. 4205, the Floyd D. Spence National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001, has been passed by the House and referred to the Senate. Subsequently the Senate voted on Senator John Warner's bill and substituted the language of H.R. 4205 and the two bills were referred to the Conference Committee. Senate and House staffers are now working the bill for resubmission in its final form to their respective bodies of Congress.
You won't believe it, unless you see it, so please go to the website and read what the bill says. Not only aircraft, but all kinds of militaria, including your M-1 carbine, are specifically subject to demilitarization (being rendered useless) under this bill. It's no matter that you acquired these things legitimately; even if you have a gold-plated bill of sale from the Pentagon, signed by Colin Powell, you may still have to surrender your airplane or memorabilia to the feds for destruction. Even though they said you could own it the way they sold it to you, if this passes, you can't."
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/itar/p121.htm#C-III

takes you to all the explanations of what this bill covers - pretty chilling all-in-all if I'm reading this right in the least.

Cat I = firearms up to .50 cal, Cat II = firearms, etc. over .50 cal (pretty much covers that) & Cat III = ammo for act I & II ... goes into manuals to aircraft.

Would have stuck in all I got today but that's 23 pages long & figured I'd max the 100K in the first post.
 

ernest2

New member
You guys should pay attention to this. If I read it correctly, this bill allows the US Govt bureaucrats to identify any firearm as a military firearm and then de-mill it.

This means that they can identify your bolt action mauser rifle as a military firearm and then come to your house and acetlyene tourch your barrel and reciever.

It does not mater that you did not buy it from the military but rather from a gun shop; if that model or type of gun was at one time ever used in military service it can be classified as a military firearm and de-milled by the govt.

This is the kiss goodbye to your aks, ak clones,ar15 and clones,sks , 30 m1 Garrands,30 m1 carbines, Ruger mini14 &30, most all semi auto rifles except prehaps Rem 7400 and many bolt actions used in ww1 &ww2.

The bill provides provisions for the govt to reclassify any rifle at any time as a military rifle and then come and de mill it.

Hell, even your favorite lever action deer
rifle was standard military equipment in the 1850'S to 1880's.

The bill also covers optical scopes and infared & starlight night vision scopes and equipment.



Of course this violates, hell, it rapes and kills, the Second Ammendment ; but these New World Order types are getting ready to push it to the brink of armed comfrontation
and I stress that they are pushing us and the existing firearms community order; they are starting the trouble, but if they try this, we may finish the trouble by removing them, whatever it takes.

If we can stop this legislation, a confrontation can be avoided.

How does that quote go??
"It is better to fight evil when it is small when one can use politics and votes and has a good chance of winning freedom and liberty
with relativly little effort and no bloodshed
than to allow evil to grow until one must needs fight it with little or no chance of winning without great loss of life."

I ,for one, would much rather phone and talk and vote than wait until more troublesome steps become the only way out.

So call and write and vote and let them know that they have pushed us as far as we care to let them.
 

Dangus

New member
Ok, Wait a minute here....

I just read through HR 4205, and I couldn't find any of the itar stuff that you linked from that other bit. In fact, that other link you have there is a totally different issue from what I can tell.

Please explain how HR 4205 has anything to do with itar? All I see in 4205 is basically housekeeping items for the military.


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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

[This message has been edited by Dangus (edited August 25, 2000).]
 

MrBigglesworth

New member
I just wrote my Reps on SB2099 a few minutes ago. I think I should wait a few days before I write on this issue as they may classify me as an email spamming gun loving zealot! :D

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Try to take away my gun...and you will see my 2nd Amendment Right in ACTION!!! -Me

FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!
 

KaMaKaZe

New member
I wish they'd stop tryin' to pass all these friggin' laws.. I ain't got enough money to purchase every damn firearm on the market that they want to ban next! :D
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
dangus,

I got a tip on this & started digging. From the "see Section A of Paragraph 12 of Directive 201.3 .... ," (these are just made up #s, etc. so don't try using 'em for any bill tracking - just making a point) I got lost quick & didn't have the time to run it all down.

The Aero-News link seemed to have done that already so that's posted for info. Like I said, what I've downloaded so far's 23 pages & I've not gone through it all yet.

From some verbals with a couple who have done their "homework" (so they've said), just about anything that was ever bought through a DoD surplus is covered.

And, the read I get on this is that it's already gone through both houses & is in conference to smooth out those differences. After that, back to each for the vote & then to Kill Willey.

'Course, with the links, anybody can pull it off but just ask & I'll e-mail the stuff I got so far.
 

Mikul

New member
Heck, I haven't come to the gun part yet, but there is some weird stuff in this "National Defense Authorization Act."

Things like:
SEC. 219. RUSSIAN AMERICAN OBSERVATION SATELLITES PROGRAM.

SEC. 311. IMPACT AID FOR CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES.

SEC. 314. DEMONSTRATION PROJECT FOR INTERNET ACCESS AND SERVICES IN RURAL COMMUNITIES.

SEC. 321. INCREASED AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE HEALTH CARE SERVICES AS HUMANITARIAN AND CIVIC ASSISTANCE.

SEC. 542. SELECTION OF FOREIGN STUDENTS TO RECEIVE INSTRUCTION AT SERVICE ACADEMIES.

SEC. 1011. EXTENSION AND INCREASE OF AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR COUNTER-DRUG ACTIVITIES.

SEC. 1044. AUTHORITY TO WITHHOLD CERTAIN SENSITIVE INFORMATION FROM PUBLIC DISCLOSURE.
(Including: That the information was provided by, otherwise made available by, or produced in cooperation with, a foreign government or international organization.) It sounds like any agreement they make with the UN would now be secret.

SEC. 1057. ACCESS TO CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORD INFORMATION FOR NATIONAL SECURITY PURPOSES.

Anyway, this thing is MASSIVE. It took me an hour to read the index. In order to read the new laws and look up the appropriate references would take me around 3 months. I'm certain the Washington weasels haven't read it.

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There are two types of men: those with guns, and those at their mercy.
 

Mikul

New member
I did a search on the document (all 991 pages) for:

civilian
demilitarization
weapons sold
weapons in civilian
AND
surplus

and came up with nothing. However, there are about 6 different versions of this bill.
 

Dangus

New member
Exactly my point. There IS goofy crap in this bill, but I don't see how it relates to ITAR at all...



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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 

Jay Baker

New member
Don't forget, boys and girls, that Sen. John Warner was stupid enough to marry Elizabeth Taylor. And she was stupid enough to marry him.

He's also extremely anti-Second Amendment.

FWIW. J.B.
 
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