How would you safely handle an "unruly" shooter

Capt_Vin

New member
The last few days up here in CNY have been like springtime, so I took advantage of the 60* weather and spent the morning at the range, as did about 6 other club members. Things were going good, we were all playing a little game we play, "Shooter's Poker", where we tack up a few decks of cards on the 25 yard board and in a series of 5 shots each, try to make the best hand.

Anyway, we have close to 250 members in our club and it is impossible to know who everyone is or their habits. One of the younger members (looks around 22-23yrs old) pulls in and during a cease fire, he goes out to the 100 yard board and sets up his targets, returns to the line and sets up his gear (he had a 10/22 and a semi AK and a crapload of ammo for each). When a resume firing call was given, this guy starts blazing away with his rifles, in rapid fire/tach reload fashion. A few of us playing Shooter's Poker stopped and just watched this guy and a few comments were made about the fact that he wasn't wearing eye or ear protection. One of the other members called for an immediate cease fire and we told the guy, the rules say you must wear eye and ear protection at all times on the range. So, after a few comments, he pulls out his eye and ear protection and puts em on. Resume fire is called and again, he starts blazing away. Ok, the guy is into rapid fire, no biggy, hell, I've done it myself a few times. A little later, the guy goes over to his car, which is backed up to the line (the parking spaces are about 5 feet from the line) pops open his trunk, and cranks up his stereo. I don't think any of us cared he was playing that rap music, but he was blasting it loud enough where ya could hear it over the gunshots and he had one of them kicker bass box things, where ya not only could hear it, but feel it as well! I called for a cease fire and said to him "Dude, ya mind turning that down cuz it is very distracting". Well, he nastily refused and says "Don't tell me what to do, motherf----". Right there I decided, as did the other guys it wasn't worth it getting ugly, so we packed up our gear and headed over to the clubhouse (which is about 500 yrds away) to file our range use sheets. None of the club's officers were there, but one of the other guys said as soon as he got home he was calling the President of the club over this.
Now, I feel we handled this as best and as safely as we could, seeing how this member obviously had a real nasty attitude (and obviously, was armed). How would you have handled this situation? I ask cuz when I got home, my wife asked why I got back so early, so I told her what happened and she felt we should have made the guy either turn it off or leave, or at least called the cops. It got me thinking, did we do the best thing (safest)?
 

10-96

New member
I tend to think that if there are no rules posted relating to music, distractions, beligerance, foul language- then there's not a lot you can do. But, by leaving, I also suspect the offending shooter thinks "great, I won!" They know older folks like us can't stand that racket and acting confrontational is a norm for them. In my line of work, I've seen countless examples of them doing this to "take over" parks and even sections of parking lots.

If you can, get the voting members of the club to put into place decency rules. And until then, and it takes almost everyone there, try this- Stop what you're doing, just sit there and stare at him. Laughter works great, and maybe let him see you take a picture of him and his car. You don't have to keep the photos- but just wondering why you're doing that will start that little mental itch, and he will see that if he does anything rude or stupid- it will be caught on film or cell phone. But remember- be quiet about it, be safe, don't get into a verbal confrontation, and don't break any of the rules you'd like to see imposed, and most certainly- be in the majority. But giving him the range that day- you reinforced his belief that his type of behavior will get him what he wants. Next time, he may just show up right off the bat with his music cranked up and cursing other members. Be safe, but also remember that nothing that makes you a responsible American gun owner requires you to give in to or to cower from punks.
 

irocknrol2

New member
For the circumstances you outlined, I think you did do the right thing at the time. It is a private club so calling the cops would have little merit. Since he responded to your request with that attitude, further conversation would be useless.

What are the rules of the club? File a complaint aganist the member.
 

Majic

New member
I used to belong to a private range where any member could be the RO. Whoever was on the range first became the RO and had full powers of a RO. That way there was always a RO present when shooters were on the line without hiring one. You could get the members to consider something like that to handle any future problems. As for what happened today I think you made the right decision in leaving. No need in giving the incident a chance to become a real problem.
 

heyduke

New member
I thought you handled it very well.

The first thing I thought when I read the title of your post without reading your thread is that I would leave.

Sounds like there may be a new rule about having members not "blasting" their car stereos at the range.

Common courtesty.
 

Tikirocker

New member
Private club or no ... where I live that behaviour would last about 30 seconds before the member was sent packing - likely followed by an official club warning; If the behaviour continued he would be suspended and possibly expelled from the club.

One of the things all club members are taught is respect for other members at the range as well as general safety ... now to the question. Did you do the right thing? That's a tough call to make when I wasn't personally there - you have to take each situation on its merits. If the guy was packing plenty of ammo and a seriously bad attitude as you have stated then who knows what the guy is capable of ... he might have been mentally unstable.

Under those circumstances and allowing for that possibility I think you guys did the right thing ... sometimes you don't know who or what you're dealing with and it's best to walk away and deal with the situation away from the heat of the moment. I think the Club President should issue the guy a warning in writing and also talk to the guy in person and let him know his behaviour was unacceptable ... if the Club president doesn't do this or know how to do this then you need to elect a new club pres.
 

WeedWacker

New member
If you have it with you at next cease fire pull out some magnum (rifle or pistol) and shoot 2 or three benches from him. Try to time it so it's right before he starts his shooting. Even better if you have side ports in a brake/compensator. :eek:

On the other hand from what his attitude was he seemed like a case of road rage about to happen. Maybe he had a bad day at the office or whatever.

However I agree that he was out of line. In all reality and all thoughts of torment aside I think I would have asked for his name and written down his license plate number and provided it to the club prez. Would have left right afterward too. I don't have the same problem due to the natur of the local range in Lapwai. It has a parking space outside of a tin enclosed covered bench-table area and you need to use a side door with a gate to get out to place your targets. Even goes out to 1000 yards I believe. Shot at the 500 yd gong once, failed miserably :eek:
 

Wyngnut

New member
Ugly situation.

Leaving was probably the best thing to do. I would have made it a point to let that person know my distaste for his behavior and have him watch me on purpose write his discription down (race, height, weight, distinguishable marks, etc.), then his license number, and his name and address. I would also demand to see his driver's license and write that info down... what's he gonna do shoot me? Then I would smile at him, wish him a nice day, and make off as if I were going to the cops with all that info...as I leave. He might just get nervous and vacate the premises, not wanting any altercations. I know how to be a righteous pain in the....

If he wants the lead to fly, your NOT unarmed, and he IS outnumbered. Just my opinion folks, not gospel...just how I am...

Edit: also the cops might not be a bad idea either...I am sure someone on the range with heavy ammo and an attitude could possibly be a person of interest. "I do have cop friends...wanna meet them?"
 
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Gbro

New member
God bless the younger shooters, and I truly believe that,,, BUT,,, There is no way I can tolerate that miserable noise that these youngsters like.

As for the attitude of that feller, Well you guy's did precipitate some of the response you received from him.
One of the other members called for an immediate cease fire and we told the guy, the rules say you must wear eye and ear protection at all times on the range. So, after a few comments, he pulls out his eye and ear protection and puts em on.

Now I don't think you were wrong in doing that, but how many times was he looked down upon by your bunch?
Did you greet this guy warmly when he arrived, and ask his if he would be interested in joining in your game??

Did you step into his boots and feel the welcome he felt at a range he also paid membership to??
Like any club, There are clicks and snobs. Neither do well in welcoming others and can make for a ugly day for all.
I hope this isn't the case.
 

ZEBRARANGER

New member
You handled it better than I would have, I know my way might not be the safer way to handle it. But, after calling me a MF, I probably would have taken his keys out of his car and told him that when he decides to be a little more considerate and grow up, he could have them back. Also, five armed men standing around 1 would have been a little intimidating, even for the morons of the world. If he had the volume turned up so loud that you and the others could feel the bass and hear it over the firing with hearing protection on, then its time for him to leave, not ya'll.
 
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.22lr

New member
this is worth everything ya paid.

If he wants the lead to fly, your NOT unarmed, and he IS outnumbered. Just my opinion folks, not gospel...just how I am...

Escalating from rude jerky behavior to violence really does seem the best choice. And he's out numbered! there's no way anything bad could have happened to the "good" guys.

After calling me a MF I probably would have taken his keys out of his car and told him that when he decides to be a little more considerate and grow up, he could have them back. Five armed men standing around 1 would have been a little intimidating, even for the morons of the world

Darn right! that young whipper snapper can have his personal property back when the "good" guys say he can! This seems the course of action to avoid conflict, and has the added bonus of proving just how tough and just the "good" guys are!

that's enough sarcasm for the day.

God bless the younger shooters, and I truly believe that,,, BUT,,, There is no way I can tolerate that miserable noise that these youngsters like.

Nor should you have to. Its a shooting range. People should shoot things there. His actions at that point became unacceptable and his response was way way out of line.

Capt_Vin, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING! You did just fine, complete the complaint to the club. Make it clear what happened to the officers at the next meeting. When you GOT HOME, your wife may have questioned your actions, but you GOT HOME. Avoiding pointless violence is a virtue, just as defending yourself when necessary.
 

Wyngnut

New member
"Nor should you have to. Its a shooting range. People should shoot things there. His actions at that point became unacceptable and his response was way way out of line."

thus...no reason for the sarcasm :p
 
Well, I would have a club officer pull him aside about the instance. Maybe he just got back into town from a business trip, walked into his bedroom saw his wife sprawled out on the bed and was about to jump on her when two guys in latex suits walked out of the bathroom. I might have to go to the range, blast some music, and ignore any reasonable requests for a day or two if that happened. Pulled aside a week later by a club officer I might agree to do a few extra work party hours.
Maybe he just got laid off.
I would get the whole story before I tried to throw him out of the club. If it was a one time thing b/c of some extraneous occurrence make him 'burn the ****ters.'
 
Im that age, when i go to the range im nothing like that. if you want to listen to music put headphones under you hearing protection. im always civil to other shooters.

the last place you want a confrontation is at a shooting range, only place where everyone is heavily armed.

I think you handled the situation extremely well.

you could have blasted country:barf: to throw him off.

T
 

Musketeer

New member
Safety is easy enough. Follow the rules or get tossed. I have a pet peeve with my local trap range because the teen age pullers are afraid to confront shooters not using ear or eye protection, let alone not following proper protocol on the trap line like walking away before the squad finishes...

Everyone should get a polite warning, request or instruction, more than one if they prove receptive to the first.

As far as respectful behavior... I don't know how we got to the point but I refuse to accept it. You should not need an explicit rule not to be an jackass. Given some people do not realize they are one a respectful request to change behavior the first time is appropriate. If that does not work they are an incurable jackass and expulsion seems reasonable to me.

Look at it this way:

1. They were probably a jackass before you met them.

2. They have certainly been a jackass while you have dealt with them.

3. If they show no inclination to change when asked they will continue to be a jackass.

4. There is no reason for the rest of the club to have to argue the exact definition of this particular jackass and make certain he understands why he is considered one. Just send him packing.
 
G'day. You did well in not escalating the situation into something dangerous. I am curious if it would have been possable to call for a cease fire every time he got ready to resume shooting call cease fire again. After all, if his actions prevented you from enjoying some shooting why not let your actions ruin his?
I know that one persons bad behavior dos not justify somebody else's. The end does not justify the means. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Along with the right/privilege goes responsibility.
 

rampage841512

New member
I think you handled the situation well. I would put my own call to the club president if I was you. Don't rely on someone else to do it. Often times they will just shrug and figure, "someone else will do it."
 

Double J

New member
Gun With A Loose Screw Attached

I believe I once read an article about a similar event. To make a long story short, A judge ruled it Self Defense. :rolleyes:
 
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