How we help "crackpots" flourish in our community...

[JohnKSa]

Here's an interesting article about cold fusion.

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/fusion_art.html

One comment from the essay caught my attention:

"...because the Cold-Fusioners see themselves as a community under siege, there is little internal criticism. Experiments and theories tend to be accepted at face value, for fear of providing even more fuel for external critics, if anyone outside the group was bothering to listen. In these circumstances, crackpots flourish, making matters worse..."​

It struck me that the firearms community has recently seen a concrete example of this type of problem play out on the media stage.

Because we also tend to see ourselves as a community under siege, we tend to be very cautious about criticizing others in the community. We tend to be more tolerant of tomfoolery and buffoonery in the firearms community than is really healthy. By avoiding internal criticism in the name of "not giving our enemies ammo to use against us" we accept and sometimes even encourage people and activities that can end up being very damaging to the community.

It is important for us to remain united, but it's just as important, perhaps even more important for us all to view our community with a critical eye and feel encouraged to speak up when we see the beginnings of "crackpottery". It's critical to insure that we don't tacitly encourage persons and activities that end up harming the firearms community.

 

[TXAZ]

I would submit that the community as a whole, tends to call a spade a spade, a reckless gun owner/handler an idiot or pariah, and good and bad guys as they are.
There is a wide spectrum of gun political correctness, often centric to a particular community, forum or shooting range.
It's hard to say XXXX is an unsafe gun handler on a forum as we seldom see most other members shooting, but at a public range like Ben Avery in PHX, there is very little tolerance, and poor gunners are called out or ejected quickly as they should.

 

[Tom Servo]

Because we also tend to see ourselves as a community under siege, we tend to be very cautious about criticizing others in the community.

The problem is, some folks aren't happy unless they feel like they're under siege. They feel it's their duty to make public spectacles of themselves in order to trigger it.

It's ironic that these are often the same folks who have trouble doing basic things like voting or supporting legitimate 2A organizations.

It is important to call out foolish and destructive behavior. Yet I'm surprised by how many people act as if I've shredded my Paul Revere cosplay club card when I tell them that some of their public antics are misguided and destructive.

We do sometimes have to criticize elements among our own ranks, and that need has been quite pressing these last few years.

 

[HiBC]

I think the folks who were carrying AK47s to buy Oreos at Target are a good example.

 

[Pond James Pond]

Because we also tend to see ourselves as a community under siege, we tend to be very cautious about criticizing others in the community. We tend to be more tolerant of tomfoolery and buffoonery in the firearms community than is really healthy.

I only have this forum to go by, but whilst I agree with the fact that many may feel as though they are under siege, I disagree about the tolerance aspect. If anything, I'd say that many are so conscious of the relatively precarious position they are in with respects to what they risk to lose, that they are even less tolerant of people whose actions jeopardise that.

The threads about Open Carry in coffee shops, people who have been engaged in shootings that were based on tenuous SD principles, people just doing daft things with guns or exhibiting unsound, unethical hunting practices. They get jumped on pretty quick around here. So, again, I'd say that the gun-owning enthusiast community (there seem to be many gun owners that are somewhat oblivious to the political storm that accompanies guns) is in fact very intolerant of anyone who risks rocking the boat.

Where I do agree is with the idea that perceptions and reactions are perhaps affected by the sieged mentality such as when someone has a perhaps different view of how firearms should be managed, but still supports gun-ownership. They too can be turned on pretty quickly, so there is also sometimes less tolerance of other points of view on the matter. That extends to accepting the fact that whilst firearms are most commonly found in civilian hands in the US, there are many other countries that have gun ownership, just not governed in the same manner. Different does not automatically equal bad.

 

[Skans]

I'm pretty critical and outspoken about the stupidity of Zombie-painted guns as well as open carry simply to prove a point and get people angry. I also think that gamers who buy guns because it seems "cool" on some game is pretty geeky. There, how's that for being a critical, outspoken, curmudgeon. Don't get me started on "tax protesters" and people who spend all of their time and money preparing for the end of the world.

I will say this, however, the utter lack of criticism of some of the idiotic things our current president has done by much of the media and those that supported him has worked!!! Perhaps the gun owning community is wise to stick together, and shun criticism even if we all know a few among us are crackpots. There seems to be some empirical support for the success of us as a whole to avoid any public infighting.

 

[44 AMP]

We do sometimes have to criticize elements among our own ranks, and that need has been quite pressing these last few years.

One of the reasons for this is that "our ranks" include everyone who wishes to join. Everyone not legally prohibited is welcome, and that does include people with less judgment than we might wish.

We tend to be more tolerant of tomfoolery and buffoonery in the firearms community than is really healthy.

We must be in different places on this. The only tomfoolery and buffoonery I see is banter in print, or in conversation when guns are not in hand.

However, I have heard about the idiots on Utube (I don't watch them), and their antics, and I will admit some of them do give the community a black eye in the public perception.

Part of the problem is just that perception. Everyone who owns a gun is, technically a gun owner. Everyone who holds a gun, controls it, and for the time they hold it they are a gun owner. The responsible firearms enthusiasts in the shooting and sporting community are lumped in together with the kind of morons who think tricking someone into hurting themselves is funny and a good thing.

We are all being painted by the same brush, and its being dipped in crap, before being applied to us.

That same brush paints everyone who steps off the pavement with a gun as a hunter / sportsman. WE all know people who behave in ways we don't wish to be associated with. I know people (some family members) I will not hunt with. Bet you do to.

But those people are held up to be representative of all of us. Call it "gun owner profiling" if you wish. Its really just stereotyping, and called bigotry when applied to any group other than gun owners.

there are many other countries that have gun ownership, just not governed in the same manner. Different does not automatically equal bad.

I understand your point, and I do agree different is not automatically bad. But, like so many things the devil is in the details, and one's point of view frames value judgments.

When it comes to firearms, there is a general tendency to believe that those rules and practices that are in place as we grow up, are the right ones. Its the way things are done. Additional restrictions, ones that are put in place after we have become shooters, and aware of "the way things are done", are often seen as tyranny.

Where we start determines where we go from there. As an example, where I grew up, in order to buy a handgun, (after meeting all federal requirements), A permit was needed, five sets of fingerprints, four photgraphs, three character references, and after investigation by both local and state agencies, it came down to the whim of a judge to authorize the permit, or not. The process, (40 years ago) took a few weeks. From people who live there today, I hear it now takes months.

In contrast, where I live now, I go into a shop, fill out a form, they make a phone call, I pay them, and go home with my new pistol.

I certainly will not voluntarily go back to the system used where I grew up. I saw that system as just "the way things were done" it was good, right, and proper. Then my eyes were opened to realize that system wasn't the only way things could be done, and still be good, right, and proper.

The main reason some lash out at anyone who lives under a more rigid gun control system, and is comfortable with it, is because of so much experience with people from that kind of system trying to impose it on the rest of us, who by and large, don't want it.

in that regard, we are painting them with the broad brush, and its regrettable.

 

[Hogtown]

John not to steal your thread; where are Texas own open carry crack pots,haven't seen or heard in a while.

 

[olddav]

I cant control what others do or say and I'm not going to try. I will however try to pay attention to what I say and do but I will sometimes make errors. As far as those who make us all look bad, they are in every group regardless of income, education, national origin, religion etc, etc.....

 

[JohnKSa]

The threads about Open Carry in coffee shops, people who have been engaged in shootings that were based on tenuous SD principles, people just doing daft things with guns or exhibiting unsound, unethical hunting practices. They get jumped on pretty quick around here.

It's true that when their activities actually started doing concrete damage to the community, people jumped on them and jumped on them hard.

The problem is that it should never have progressed that far. I think until the damage had been done we mostly turned a blind eye. It should have been obvious to us that, to people who were already somewhat "judgement impaired", the lack of a strong, negative response would be seen as approval.

The only tomfoolery and buffoonery I see is banter in print, or in conversation when guns are not in hand.

The open carry fiascos in recent times are one example of buffoonery taking place with guns in hand. There are other examples, one that springs to mind from awhile back involved an instructor placing people downrange while other students fired at targets next to the downrange persons.

Different does not automatically equal bad.

An excellent point. This is where we have to work hard to determine what is merely different and what is actually damaging--and then have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and decry the latter.

...where are Texas own open carry crack pots,haven't seen or heard in a while.

Let's hope it stays that way.

As far as those who make us all look bad, they are in every group...

It's important for us to distance those people who are damaging to our community and more important for us to make sure that takes place before the inevitable media fiasco hits the fan. There's nothing like being able to say: "You are RIGHT! Those people ARE nuts and here's where we tried to shut them down way back in XXXX when they first started their failed attempt to garner support from the firearm community."

It's not about trying to control others and what they say or do, it's about making every effort, in advance, to prevent being tarred with the same brush when the predictable debacle occurs.

 

[Homerboy]

Any adult who has the time to be an "activist" by strapping on a gun and walking around with the intent to call attention to themselves is a loser, period. Most open carriers fall into this category. Of course, if you live in an area where OC is normal, then have at it. I live in PA where OC is legal, and I see MAYBE one guy a year doing it. A few months ago, I saw an obviously mentally challenged man walk into Home Depot with a 1911 and 2 mags on his hip. He ran over to the riding mowers like my 7 year old does and his companion( older woman probably his mother) had to ask questions to the clerk. The responses I got on the forum I posted it on we're overwhelmingly in favor of a mentally retarded person carrying a gun. Unreal

We are our worst enemy

 

[skoro]

It's critical to insure that we don't tacitly encourage persons and activities that end up harming the firearms community.

A certain hyperactive draft-dodging loudmouth who likes to very loudly and publicly advertise himself as "pro 2a" comes to mind...

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, that's a lot of people. If you have a specific public person - say so. But in polite terms.