How Old is My M16?

[Nightcrawler]

I'm issued an M16A1 in the Army National Guard. It's been around the block many times, and many old parts have been replaced with, erm, not as old parts. THe buttstock has the trapdoor in it instead of the rubber buttpad some of them have. They've been upgraded to round handguards, though I liked the triangular ones better.

At any rate, on the side of the magazine well it has a Colt logo and says "Colt AR-15". Beneath that aways, amongst various serial numbers, it has something like "M16A1 Mod" stamped on it, leading me to believe that my rifle is modified from a semiauto AR-15, or something.

Others in our unit are made by GM Hydra-Matic Divsion.

Any guesses on the ages of either model?

 

[uglygun]

Originally the AR15 was the model name for the rifle as made by Armalite, Colt purchased the trademark rights to the name as well as the patents to the design.


The very early guns produced by Colt still had the "Armalite AR15" name on the side for a short while then later Colt dropped "Armalite" from the rifles, both early rifles should be without a forward assist. Then next up was the M16A1 type after the government accepted the design and gave it a designation/variation class, M16A1 having the forward assist.


If it's got the "Armalite AR15" or "Colt AR15" on it yet has all the A1 features, it's likely an early manufacture AR15 for government use that was later converted to M16A1 specs and then restamped to note the changes that were made to it. If it's got the "Colt Armalite AR15" or "Colt AR15" marked on it, it's old enough to have seen use with the SOG groups/advisors and other units that saw the earliest deployment to South Vietnam before everything blew up over there.


I've heard of similar things being done to M16A1s where they were converted to A2 specifications with a new upper assembly and fire control parts while getting it's lower receiver restamped to update it's mode of fire and it's variant.



Somebody on the old AR15.com forums had an EXCELLENT set of pictures taken of a mint condition full auto "Colt, Armalite AR15" as originally issued and used by the government. It too was floating around in the backs of his reserve unit's armory. Unfortunately I think the link is now inactive after about a year of being on the net. I might have them still saved to my computer some place but I'd have to look around for them and then upload them, the rifle was a beauty and a real historic piece for sure.



A decent resource to track the way Colts have been configured and marked over the years can be found here
http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/

 

[ballistic gelatin]

Nightcrawler, what do you do in the Guard?

 

[Nightcrawler]

12B Combat Engineer

107th Engineers

 

[Nightcrawler]

So, in essence, I'm expected to fight with a 30 year old weapon. Of course, our 60's and M2s are just as old.

Now, in an ideal world, the Army would sell small arms off to the civilian population after they've been in for, say, 20 years or so, and replace them with new ones.

Hardly idea.

 

[K80Geoff]

Nightcrawler. Thank whatever diety you worship you have a Colt instead of those gawd awfull Hydra matics.

I am surprised they are still around. They were junk when I used them almost 30 years ago. Thought by now we would have given them all away to our "allies' in S America or somewhere.

You wanna talk old, you should have seen some of the 1911's we had to use back then.

 

[CWL]

Guard units stationed inside San Francisco Airport still carried M16s with triangular handguards.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

From the way it sounds, about the only 30 year old original part is the lower receiver. I have a couple of rifles over 100 years old that still work perfectly. As long as it still works, don't worry about the age.

 

[Nightcrawler]

As long as it still works

That IS the question, isn't it? To be honest, I don't know. The only live rounds we fire are the blue tipped low velocity plastic stuff for our 25 meter qualification course. Other than that, it's blanks. Never fired a round of ball ammo through my Guard M16.

 

[BigG]

Get a copy of The Black Rifle. If you like M16s it's well worth the 60 bucks or so. Great resource. Pictures of all the old legendary stuff, like the Armalite marked Colt AR15 M16s.

Mine in basic was marked Colt AR15 and underneath it said M16A1, IIRC. GM Hydramatics were dreck.

 

[Master Blaster]

GM Hydramatic, that the name of the first automatic transmission made by GM for cars, or was that hydrostatic.

Years ago when I got my first drivers license Iwas riding with my grandmother in her car I noticed her odd driving style, she used to speed up to 25mph take her foot off the gas then speed up to 40 and take her foot off the gass again, then speed up to 60 and take her foot off the gas again. This made for a jerky ride to say the least. I asked her why she drove in this jerky manner.

Her answer: I have to take my foot off the gas to let the transmission shift??????!!!!!!!!

Later that day I told my dad and he laughed and said that back in the early 1950s when my Grandmom learned to drive, they had bought their first car with a hydrostatic drive (first automatic transmission), you had to take your foot off the gas to let it shift at the top of each drive belt/ gear range

My grandfather never let my GM drive when he was in the car.

Later that day I called my grandmom and explained to her that it was no longer necessary to take your foot off so the car could shift.

When you shoot that hydromatic do you have to take your finger off the trigger to chamber another round???

 

[BigG]

I'm no expert but seem to remember...

Automatics actually go back quite a bit further than the 50s. The Model T was considered to be semi automatic, IIRC. By the 30s they had fluid drive which was a crude automatic.

The GM transmission you're prolly thinking of is the PowerGlide.

 

[K80Geoff]

Master Blaster Not quite, when you shot a Hydramatic you had to slap the mag, pull the charging handle and whack the forward assist to get it to fire the second shot.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Let go of the trigger to fire the second shot? No, sometimes you have to pull the charging handle back. It sure was acting up last FTX we had. Wouldn't even eject (blanks). I had the blank adapter screwed in as tight as I could get it, too.

Of course, the weapon hadn't been lubed. They work much better when lubed, especially if it's dusty. Dust and dirt can jam them up pretty good.

 

[Leafy]

When I wanted to know how old my Colt AR was I just called Colt, told them the serial number, and they told me the year of production. Simple enough.

 

[Larry Wright]

They've been upgraded to round handguards, though I liked the triangular ones better.

The triangular handguards sorta suck when you're all sweaty and absolutely no fun with bayonet drills IMHO. BTW, built any Bailey bridges lately?

 

[Redlg155]

They've been upgraded to round handguards, though I liked the triangular ones better.

Upgraded? The original ones probably broke after years of use and the Military no longer has the triangular ones. Otherwise I'd bet they would have stuck triangular ones back on.

But then thas something about the Military. They make you use stuff until it dies. When I was with the 24th ID in Ft Stewart we were all assured that in a wartime situation we would all be issued new howitzers from storage sites in Germany. No way would we take our crappy deadlined M109s. Guess what..I sat in the desert for seven months and went into battle in the sands if Iraq (well..strange to say it was muddy there when the rains came..almost as bad as Georgia clay) with the same crappy howitzer I played in the mud with at Ft. Stewart.

Lesson learned?..Take care of your equipment because you won't get new stuff when you go to fight.

Ohhh..and the funny part. Before we deployed we emptied out all the local Walmarts, Kmarts and sporting goods stores of all their cleaning supplies. All on Army money.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[Quartus]

Wouldn't even eject (blanks).

Choking on blanks is normal. Doesn't mean anything bad about the weapon. Blanks just don't work well.

I had the blank adapter screwed in as tight as I could get it, too.

Check the ledge where the muzzle opens up into the muzzle brake. There should be a right angle there. If it tapers or is rounded, you've got carbon built up there and the blank adaptor can't seat properly.

A dentist's probe works quite well there. It's all steel, so you can't hurt it. I don't recommend the probe inside the receiver, though. Soft aluminum and hardened stainless steel are NOT a good match!

 

[Nightcrawler]

Bayonet drills? Heh. I've never put a bayonet on a rifle. They ran out of them in basic training before they got to me, and we never issue them in the Guards.

Bailey Bridges? Built one in basic. Got put on panel crew. Uck. No more. 12-charlies build bridges. 12-bravos do mines and demolitions. Demo's fun stuff, but we only get to mess with it during annual training.

I'm a SAW gunner now, I'm told. Swell. Talk about overcomplicated...admittedly, the SAW doesn't have as many little itty bitty pieces as the M16, but they sure are a pain in the can to clean.

We've had two of them that, upon returning from being borrowed by the local University ROTC, have had the peep sight sheared right off. Quite an accomplishment, given the thick steel wings protecting it.

 

[Foxy]

An ROTC unit got to play with SAWs??

The only thing they let the Army ROTC unit at my university use are those rubber-ducky M16's.

Don't feel too bad though.. you're not the only military person using ancient equipment.