How much protection is afforded by the kevlar helmets / vests of the army?

[scotjute]

Was always under the impression that a rifle bullet would travel right thru these things and that they're basically for incidental shrapnel/flying debris? Is this correct or can they actually stop bullets? If so what calibers?
Are they any better protection-wise than the old steel helmets of WWII?

 

[DaleA]

A rifle would certainly penetrate the flack vests of the '70s. I remember a supply sergeant used to give out bogus 'patch kits' when he issued the vests to folks he thought were gullible.

Here's some info about new armor off MSN.COM

"California-based Ceradyne has just received a big order from the military for its ceramic chest and back plates which can stop multiple rounds from a 30- to 50-caliber machine gun at point blank range.

it’s [the ceramic plates] being used to make body armor plates for U.S. troops. This is the way the plate comes out, this is very light weight, it’s the lightest ceramic, it’s the hardest ceramic and we’re making them by the thousands really, says Ceradyne CEO Joel Moskowitz."

 

[4V50 Gary]

I've seen the helmets tested at Trexpo West and they will stop a handgun bullet. However, the police helmets are superior in that there won't be a big ole' dent to make an impression upon your noggin. Considering the thickness of the vests, they will also stop a handgun bullet. I don't believe either kevlar helmet nor vest will stop a rifle bullet though and I'm not going to test my surplus vest out. Sorry but our TFL budget doesn't go beyond my health care plan (two bandaids and a map to the emergency room ).

 

[Nightcrawler]

The USGI Kevlar Helmet and Flak Jacket are both rated NIJ Level II. They'll stop slower-moving fragmentation and handgun bullets.

Intermediate Rifle Cartridges (5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm) will easily penetrate the vests.

Full Rifle Cartridges (7.62x51mm, .30-'06, 7.62x54mmR) will punch through either without trouble.

Newer vests that Rangers and such are getting have pockets for ceramic or steel plates (ala Black Hawk Down), but these have not filtered down to all of the infantry and such as of yet (AFAIK).

Want to hear something depressing? I've been told that .308 Armor Piercing will defeat the armor of the early 70s vintage M113A2s my Guard unit uses. .50 caliber, or Russian 14.5mm will tear right through it.

Which brings me to another point. That news blurb said this ceramic plate could stop .50 caliber? I kind of doubt that. And even if it did, it'd still crush your chest cavity. Taking a hit to the chest from .308 (when wearing an armor plate) would probably shatter your sternum. Better than being shot through and through, though.

 

[beltloop]

vests....

The new vests may stop anything from 30-50 cal....but the impact will certainly kill you...kinda like getting hit by a car at 2500 feet per sec...don't be fooled impact w/o penetration is just as deadly as a bullet thru the heart, head or chest.

Picture it this way: go to a base ball field, kneel down at home plate, put on a new Kevlar wonder helmet or vest. Then let Barry Bonds take a swing... surely the bat won't penetrate but that impact will certainly end your existence.

 

[omega5]

I have a 1 1/2" scar on the right side of my forehead that a kevlar helment would have prevented. Shrapnel from a mortar round while vacationing in sunny VietNam compliments of Uncle Sam.
The helmet, steel or kevlar was not designed to stop a high velocity round. It was however, designed to stop shrapnel. Even 34 years later, once in awhile I'll have a place fester up on my head like a big boil and when it pops, there'll be a tiny piece of metal in it.

 

[gburner]

Ermey's show 'Mail Call' did a segment on this topic. At appx 50 yards, 7.62x39 fired from an AK went right thru the Veet Nam era vest but were stopped in the first layers of the current one. As far as the Kevlar helmet, I'm fairly certain that if the round didn't kill you, it would permanently dull you senses to the point of voting Democrat.

 

[vulcan]

When the fritz helmets were newly issued & first used in the invasion of Grenada, The museum at Ft. Bragg had on display one that stopped a AK round. It was pretty much spent when it impacted the unlucky trooper's helmet. The impact knocked him from the front to the back of his foxhole. The round bulged the inside of the helmet & just about to break thru. He got a concussion from it.

 

[Al Thompson]

Richard Davis and Chuck Taylor have both demonstrated vests by being shot with, respectivly, a .44 Magnum and a .308. Both are still alive and kicking. Blount face trauma is real but exaggerated.

There was a case in Panama where one of the Rangers took a 7,62 x 39mm round to the noggin. As reported, the helmet saved his life.

Much better stuff than the old stuff.

 

[Dangus]

Beltloop,

By the rules of physics, the shooter receives more of the bullet's energy than the victim. So if the vest can spread the energy out to a similar amount of area as the buttstock of the rifle that the bullet is shot from, then it stands to reason that the round can be more than safely stopped. Try shooting a bolt action in .50BMG with no muzzle break. It's unpleasant as all hell, but it's manageable.

As for the Barry Bonds example, I'd take you up on that. I have a vest of chainmail that I made with a very special weave design, it flexes really well outward, but not much at all inward. So to demo it, I had a friend with a battle axe hit me full force in the gut. Barely felt it. Mind you, I tested the armor to see if it could take that without failing several times before I let someone do that to me, and I used someone I knew could swing accurately, but the demonstration was an eye opener to the crowds who have witnessed it because most people have Hollywood's ideas on physics stuck in their brain. If a bullet strikes you, overall, it has very little momentum, but it's effective because it has all it's momentum in a very small area.

 

[beltloop]

chain mail

"I had a friend with a battle axe hit me full force in the gut. Barely felt it. "


Do you have a tape of this....like to see it...

IN the gut why not in the side of the head or elbow, or middle arm or shin...see how well the energy is disappaited...Bond's does hit a foul ball once in awhile...and I doubt your friend has the upper bdy development as does Bonds. While I can bench nearly 400lbs I can not hit a baseball 40 feet let alone 400 feet!

 

[answerguy]

ROTFLMAO

"I'm fairly certain that if the round didn't kill you, it would permanently dull you senses to the point of voting Democrat."

That was funny!

 

[imadork]

The Interim Small Arms Protective Overvest is designed to defeat medium power rifle threats-- 5.56 and 7.62. See http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/isapo.htm but there aren't very many in circulation according to this site. Looks like regular troops just have PASGT.

9mm FMJ test results: http://www.bulletproofme.com/PHOTO pages/Kevlar_Helmets_PHOTOS.shtml#Helmet_Testing

 

[orlando5]

Current standard in pdf format.


Ballistic Resistance of Personal Body Armor (NIJ Standard—0101.04)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/183651.htm

 

[qkrthnu]

If the vests/helmets can protect against handgun fire shouldn't they also protect against rifle fire once it's traveled X# of yards and dropped down into the handgun power range?

I have a vest of chainmail that I made with a very special weave design, it flexes really well outward, but not much at all inward. So to demo it, I had a friend with a battle axe hit me full force in the gut. Barely felt it.

Nice! I've been wanting to make some chainmail for quite some time.

What material did you go with and what is the special weave you used?

 

[md2lgyk]

If I recall correctly from Infantry training, something like 40% of battlefield wounds are from shrapnel. The helmet and body armor reduces that quite a bit. I know neither will stop a .223 round (at least not the stuff I was issued years ago).

 

[Nightcrawler]

The new flak jackets won't stop them either, I don't think (.223 rounds). They're designed to stop grenade and artillery shrapnel.

I don't see why they can't make a nice vest that'll stop shrapnel AND bullets, and make it light as possible. It'd still be one more heavy thing for grunts like myself to wear, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that's better than, you know, dying.

 

[Dangus]

Do you have a tape of this....like to see it...

Sorry, I have no video camera. The vest does weigh 36 pounds though, that helps.

Nice! I've been wanting to make some chainmail for quite some time.

What material did you go with and what is the special weave you used?

I used 3/8" lockwashers. Sorta overkill really. The weave is your basic oriental square weave, but with specific vertical links linked together in the back. It's pretty simple really, but it only flexes out well, but does not flex in well. Fixes the age-old problem of chainmail not dealing with blunt trauma well. If I'd invented this in the medieval days, I'd have been rich. Now it's a bit more of a novelty. Thing is, it requires a heavy link, with a thick rim. It has to be woven tightly, so there's not a lot of slack room in the joining links. Soldering the adjoining links is a good idea if you can do it. Probably the ideal way to do this weave is to use something very heavy for the adjoining links, like the afore-mentioned lockwashers, and then use traditional links for the vertical and back links.

 

[qkrthnu]

I used 3/8" lockwashers. Sorta overkill really. The weave is your basic oriental square weave, but with specific vertical links linked together in the back.

Anyway you could take a closeup picture of the vest? I'd like to see it. I take it you don't wear it very often

 

[orlando5]

If the vests/helmets can protect against handgun fire shouldn't they also protect against rifle fire once it's traveled X# of yards and dropped down into the handgun power range?

It won't beacause of how the rilfe bullet is design.