How many rounds break-in for 1911 Pistol?

[vincent]

How many rounds should one fire through a new 1911 style pistol to allow for a break-in period? (Please no 1911 bashing.)

I recently purchased a new Kimber Classic Stainless and it is failing to feed about 1/100 rounds with factory ball ammo and Wilson mags. The case is catching partially into the chamber leaving the slide about 1/2 way open. I have another Kimber Classic that is very reliable, but I've had it for several years and can't remember how long it took to break in. I wan't this one to be reliable too, but I don't want to send it back to the factory prematurely.

Thanks,

Vincent

 

[Rob Pincus]

There could be several problems. The first thing I would check is the ammo. If you have been using ammo from the same manufacturer and lot, you might try some other stuff and see what happens.

Next, the spring. I know you said the gun was new, but the Spring could be a problem.

The chamber itself could have some problem.. a defect or corrosion are two possibilities that jump into my mind.

If the problem continues much past 4-500 rounds, I'd say send it back. Of course, I am assuming that you are properly lubricating the pistol, and you have kept it relatively clean.

(God, I wish you hadn't said "no 1911 bashing"......)

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-Essayons

 

[rapidfire]

Hi Vincent,
Last year i bought a Kimber gold match. I also had many failure to feeds at first. I tried different ammo and mags and finally i went back to the store where i got it. Apparently, the guns are very tight and do need some breaking in. I had only shot about 150 at that point. I went back to the range and put another 200 rounds through it and it has been fine every since. It was a real pain to have to push the slide closed every fifth round, but it is 100% realible now. I should also mention that i may have had the problem since i had my gun coated with NP3 by Robar. That may have made my slide to frame fit even tighter than normal. Anyway, after 300 or 400 rounds it was fine and working great.
Hope this helps.

 

[HS]

Vince, apart from 300 - 400rnds, also look for burrs/machine marks on the feed ramp & breech area.

Also ask George the Gunsmith on here if the problem is still APITA

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"The Gun from Down Under !"

 

[Mikey]

vincent,

I almost caught fire from the flaming I got on another site for saying this...but...every Kimber I know of personally, has had the same problem. I shoot Wilsons and "full customs" that I built and they run flawlessly for the most part. The problem is not uncommon for "factory guns" and can be three fold in the Kimber. Being a 1911 makes it easy to fix although it can be frustrating in the mean time.

First, I believe Kimber puts a 16 (not for sure) pound recoil spring in their guns. Replace it with a Wolf 18 1/2 pounder.

Second, check the breech face. If it has tool marks, a raised area around the firing pin hole or appears to have a bead-blasted type finish, it needs polished. Go ahead and polish the feed ramp too. I polish mine to a mirror finish.

Third, the throat of the barrel may need slight recontouring and polishing. This is best done by a competent gunsmith that specializes in 1911's.

These are listed in order of cost/simplicity. The first step is the easiest and cheapest. Try each one for a while and stop when the problem goes away.

Break-in for a semi-custom gun should be 300-500 rounds of factory hardball. Depending on the load you shoot thereafter, the recoil spring will need to be replaced every 1500-3000 rounds (if you shoot a lot) or once a year if you don't run many rounds through the gun. A weak recoil spring is the number one cause of failures to fully chamber a round.

Mikey

 

[Keith Rogan]

I've been publically pilloried for saying this in the past, but I think any new semi needs to be thoroughly degreased and then shot dry for a while when new.
Kimbers in particular are made to much tighter specs than other factory pistols. Any burr or the slightest roughness will affect function. Shooting it dry will allow parts to "marry up". The higher the quality of pistol, the more likely it is to need this - milled steel inevitably will have tool marks that need smoothing out.
Shoot 100/200 rounds through it dry, then break it down and clean and oil it. Every pistol I've done this too has run like a champ after the treatment.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

 

[Rob Pincus]

Personally, I've shot a lot of guns dry, because I am lazy and neglectful.. but I haev heard of Keith's "rough break in" method before.. from some very knowledgable guys. It probly can't hurt anything, and likely does break the gun in rapidly.

 

[James K]

I don't own a Kimber, but I wonder if Kimber says in their literature/warranty that their guns require a break-in period. If I buy a gun, fire off a few rounds then use it for a duty or defense gun and it jams at the wrong time, and I survive, I will be pretty mad at the manufacturer who tells me that I should have known the gun needed a 500 round break-in.

A break-in period is acceptable for a custom purely target gun and manufacturers tell customers that, even though paper targets don't shoot back. But any gun in service configuration should work out of the box, every time, with standard ammo or it is not only worthless junk, but dangerous to boot.

Why keep something that doesn't work? You wouldn't tolerate failures from a car, a TV, a washing machine, why tolerate it from a gun?

Jim

 

[Dan]

Jim seemed to sum up my feelings pretty well. And it's also why I don't bet my life on any 1911 design.

Hmm... don't hear about this sort of thing with the Glock...

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Dan

Check me out at:
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/GlocksnGoodies.htm

 

[jimmy]

This may be unrealistic, but, personally, I don't believe that a gun should have to be worn in to be reliable. I tend to be suspicious of any gun that isn't reliable out of the box, or, worst-case, after 50-100 rounds. At least 200 rounds should then be fired--not to wear in the pistol, but just to confirm its reliability. To me, any further problem is a signal to send the gun to the factory service department.

BTW, Colts have a poor reputation and Kimbers have a great reputation. But IMHO Colts aren't always that bad and Kimbers aren't always that good. The last Colt I tried (GM Series 80 .38 Super) was 100% reliable out of the box, whereas the last Kimber I tried (Custom Classic) would not extract and eject reliably because its extractor exerted little or no tension on the cartridge case. Just my $0.02.


[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited June 01, 1999).]

 

[Mikey]

I really don't see the problem with a so-called break-in period. In fact, I would highly recommend that ANY gun to be used for personal protection be fired at least 200-300 times, without malfunction, with appropriate carry ammo, before even being considered for carry use. Furthermore, ANY malfunction during the break-in should be analyzed, corrected and another break-in period completed before using for protection.

Anybody who bets their life on a pistol that has been sparingly fired is being foolish (in my opinion) regardless of the reputation of the particular model.

Glocks are known for reliability but they can and have failed. I personally find them too thick for concealed carry. The 1911 is known for sometimes being fickle but they are my first choice for defense. I will not carry one that can't go 200-300 (or more) rounds of uninterupted fire with carry ammo.

My custom competition models have gone over 3000 rounds without malfunction and I expect no less from my similarly modified carry piece.

Mikey

 

[BigG]

Why do you think the 1911A1 U.S. Army achieved the enviable reputation of the "most reliable combat pistol in the world"? Anybody who has ever picked up an Army pistol will immediately note that it moves when you shake it. It rattles. Simply put, those custom guns are built to way too tight tolerances for a duty pistol. Most of the "accuracy" and "combat tuning" that gets done to 1911s is an appeal to drugstore cowboys, those who never shot enough to know the true genius behind the original 1911 Colt Automatic Pistol. I would be pissed if a standard pistol needed a break-in period. Try a Colt Government Model.

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Son of Liberty

 

[Bubba]

I own a couple of Kimbers and have a some minor problems with each. My Poly had some serious FF out of the box. I had it polished and it got better. But in still
will not feed Georgia Arms hard ball. Switched to S&B, shoots great now.

I also have a Combat Carry out of the Kimber Custom Shop. This one has been outstanding. No feed problems at all. I got some new Wilson mags and had problems with the slide not locking open after the last round. Same problem with 6 differnt Wilson mags. Replaced the Kimber Slide Stop with a Wilson, poof. Problem gone. Was the problem Kimber's or Wilsons? No idea. Works now. That's all I care about.



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739

 

[JoeT]

I posted a few weeks ago asking about whether to buy a Kimber Stainless Compact or a Glock 30. I shot the Glock, liked it, but still bought the Kimber because I found a screaming deal on it and I really liked the look and feel of the gun better than the Glock. I promised to post a follow-up once I shot it. Well, I put over 250 rounds through it over the long weekend. 150 rounds of Federal 230 hard ball, and 100 rounds of Triton 185 gr. +p. I also shot some 185 gr. hollow-point reloads that my dad picked up at a gunshow. Not one malfunction with either the McCormick magazine that came with the gun or the Wilson 7 rd. Mag I ordered last week! Plus, the gun was more accurate than the filthy dirty Glock I rented at the range. I LOVE IT! I also love the rosewood thin concealed carry grips I got from Wilson. Now I need to find a good hi-rise carry holster and I'm set. I don't think I'll buy that Glock after all. Just call me happy to be Cocked and Locked.

By the way - I was reading the Glock-talk board recently when they bashed the $%*@ out of the Beretta 92! Those individuals lost all credibility with me instantly. I still believe that the Beretta 92 is the most reliable auto pistol ever made - over 4000 rounds through mine with not a single malfunction - I seem to recall that the government achieved similar results when they tested several service pistols in the late 80's or early 90's - including the Glock.

 

[James K]

Mikey and guys,

I agree that anyone buying a new pistol should fire it at least a couple of hundred rounds with his/her "carry" ammo before depending on it. But some people don't do this, and I think new guns should work "out of the box." This does NOT apply only to one type of pistol; it applies to all firearms (and all products, for that matter, it's just that very few people bet their lives on a CD player).

As to damning the "1911", I have not seen many U.S. Army Model 1911A1 pistols that wouldn't work fine from day one with GI ball. (Yes, I have gotten dozens right out of the box.) The phoney baloney clones and the junk ammo are giving a fine pistol a bad name.

Jim

 

[Robert Foote]

How many rounds does it take to break in a revolver? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) As for the rattling GI .45s; I once took an old Remington Rand, dug a hole in a soft dirt field, and put the gun in it. I covered it up and jumped on the hole a while. Dug the gun up, racked the slide, and fired all rounds in the magazine. Now THAT is a gun to ride the river with!

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[Keith Rogan]

Would anyone here buy a new car and then drive cross country at high speeds without the manufacturer suggested break-in period?

You may buy a new Kimber and have it work great right out of the box. In fact, that will probably be the situation most of the time. Still, this is a machine that required hundreds of different manufacturing processes by dozen of different people. A moments inattention by any of those people may result in a burr or rough spot somewhere in the gun.
Couple that with the fact that Kimber totally redrew the specs to much higher tolerances and you have the possibility of failure until the parts marry in.
I didn't have any problems with the two Kimbers I bought, but if I had, I would have taken them in stride as part of the break-in of the gun.
The only consistent problem I have heard of with Kimbers is their apparent inability to feed semi-wadcutters without a gunsmiths attention. I think thats unnaceptable in a target pistol, but I wouldn't give it a second thought for a carry gun.
Unfortunately, Kimber does manufacture target guns and as far as I know haven't addressed the problem as yet.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

 

[jimmy]

JoeT--sorry to hear about your experience with Glock Talk. I missed that GT thread, but in others have found GTers (who are a good bunch of folks) generally respectful of the Beretta 92. FWIW, I'd like to suggest that you give GT another chance.

Jim K.--I agree with your assessment of the 1911 in its military configuration. I note with a certain all-American pride that the 40-year-old 1911s used as controls in the U.S. M9 pistol trials stood up quite respectably against the entrants, and in at least one test actually fared better.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited June 02, 1999).]

 

[James K]

The argument that if a gun is precision made it can't be expected to work without breaking in leaves me a little cold. The computers we use to type this stuff have hard drives that are made with a precision no gun company could ever hope to come close to matching.

Would anyone buy a computer, have the hard drive crash two or three times in ten reads, for the first six months, and then accept the excuse that "it has to be broken in"?

Just a thought.

Jim

 

[Mikey]

Jim,

Computers are actually "burned-in" instead of broken-in but the result is the same. Most are burned-in at the factory but when I had mine built by a 'puter-weenie co-worker, we burned it in for 24 hours before using it. I still do back-ups in case of a failure and I also de-frag periodically.

As for the precision firearms, it's not that I "expect" them to malfunction, it's more like I want to make sure they won't. And if they do, I want to fix it now and test it again before I bet my life on it!

Mikey