How important is +P?

[ImJustRick]

Hiya-

I'm wondering what kind of difference +P or +P+ ammo will make, in practical terms. Right now I carry 9mm HPs, and I feel pretty confident that ten (plus one) of those is all the firepower I'll ever need.

Am I mistaken? Am I foolish for not carrying something more powerful? Or would the increase in powder decrease accuracy?

What do *you* carry?

Thanks!

-Rick

 

[Christopher II]

Black Hills 124 grain JHP, 9mm, standard velocity. I don't believe in magic miracle bullets. Standard pressure/velocity is fine.

- Chris

 

[jack_the_sailor]

I carry G-17 9MM. My range ammo is standered pressure 115 gr. My carry ammo use to be +P or +P+. The last time I switched from Steer GD 124 +P to Winshester 127 +P+, I shot up all the GD +P & the Ranger I didn't need for carry. I found the +P & +P+ caused higher muzzle flip which resulted in shooting slower controled pairs. So I just switched to Winchester Ranger 147. I shot what I didn't need for carry, controled pairs were shot just as fast as standered pressure 115 range ammo. For me I wont use +P or +P+ ammo.

 

[Spackler]

I like a load that has good expansion and penetration. You don't need high pressure +p or +p+ to get the desired results. I would be comfortable with the Winchester white box 115gr JHPs, although in 9mm I prefer the 115gr or 124gr standard pressure Gold Dots, or the Federal 9BP (the non-LE standard pressure round).

 

[dfm]

About the only absolute need for +p is in some of the foreign designs that are built to run on the stuff from a reliability standpoint.

dfm

 

[johnwill]

IMO, if you think you need +P ammo, you really need a more effective caliber.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Depends on the caliber and the shooter.

.45 +p - a decrease in accuracy associated with double taps out of a 3.5" barrel.


9MM - no decrease out of a 3.5" barrel.


ie - for me +p for 9MM, standard pressure for .45

 

[C.R.Sam]

The terms +P and +P+ have as much bearing on cartridge performance as the color of the grips..........

Some normal Peak pressure loads render high performance.
Some +P and +P+ are relative duds.
And vice versa.

Sam

 

[teombe]

I don't know much about .45s as I don't own one (yet), but here's what I found out about the 9mms. As always, YMMV

The whole +p and +p+ thing is founded upon the basic premise that for a given bullet design (and weight), a certain muzzle velocity range must be reached before optimum performance can be extracted from said bullet.

For Example, Speer's Gold Dot 124gr bullet achieves optimum expansion and penetration in bare and clothed gelatin when it is propelled to a muzzle velocity between 1100fps and 1200fps.

Any faster, and you get over-expansion and under-penetration. Conversely, any slower, and you get serious overpenetration (not a good thing for SD situations).

Now, as we all know, the shorter the barrel of your gun, the lower your Muzzle Velocity will be for a given round. Take Black Hills's standard pressure Gold Dot 124gr (9mm) loading for instance. While it may reach 1150fps from a Glock 17, it may only do 1000fps from a Glock 19.

Thus, you have extra pressure loads which will make up for the difference in barrel length thru increased muzzle velocity in shorter barrels. In a Glock 19, the Black Hills 124+p load penetrates 13.6 inches of clothed gelatin, expanding to .58". Pretty impressive for a 9mm, right?

The best thing to do is to find out how a certain load performs in a gun with a barrel length similar to yours. Some extrapolation may be necessary, but you'll have the answer to your question.

For more info, see www.ammolab.com

 

[KSFreeman]

Chris and Sam, I am ashamed at both of you. Oh, sure, technically you're right, but +P adds at least 25 to 33% to gross revenue!!! The purpose of bidness is to make money, lots of it.

Besides, don't you want to be like the flower-shirted gun hack and carry ++++PP+P+++ ammo. Here's the address to write to to go and buy it as well.

 

[blades67]

Now, as we all know, the shorter the barrel of your gun, the lower your Muzzle Velocity will be for a given round. Take Black Hills's standard pressure Gold Dot 124gr (9mm) loading for instance. While it may reach 1150fps from a Glock 17, it may only do 1000fps from a Glock 19.

If you don't have a chronograph to check your numbers you shouldn't guess, or make up numbers, to try to sell your point. The 17 has a barrel length of 114 mm (or 4.49 in. for those that are afraid of the metric system) and the 19 has a barrel length of 102 mm (or 4.02 in. for those that are still afraid of the metric system). That is only a 12 mm (that's less than half an inch) difference. Unless there was a serious defect there won't be a 45.72 Mps (150 fps) velocity loss with that little difference in barrel length. Between 7.62-15.24 Mps (25-50 fps) would be more accurate, as well as insignificant.

 

[teombe]

If you don't have a chronograph to check your numbers you shouldn't guess, or make up numbers, to try to sell your point.

Point taken - I shouldn't have attempted to take a wild stab at the numbers, since I didn't have them off hand. In fact, the Winchester Ranger RA9SXTP load chronoed' at 1180fps in a G17, 1137fps in a G19, and 1118fps in a G26. Not much different indeed.


My point, which I wasn't really trying to sell--either it gets accepted into the body of knowledge or not-- was that there are sources out there where a shooter can get some approximate performance numbers on a particular load in a particular weapon with a little digging. The rest of the post was me just trying to explain, to the best of my knowlege, why ammo manufacturers would exceed the pressure limit on a 9mm cartridge for any reason.

My personal opinion is that standard loads in that caliber are much more controllable, and for me, two hits is always better than one.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Don't notice much difference in muzzle flip between the standard and +P loads in 9MM. Guess thats because I have a .40 cal that was my first semi. As far as the difference I'll stick with the +P ammo in the 9MM since I can handle it easily and the extra fps of energy is nice to have. Shoot 115 gr. +P Corbon out of my G19.

 

[shy_man]

I did not chronoed the speed of all my bullets I've used for I don't have that equipment, except that after competition then they chronoed 5 samples of the bullets we've used in the range if it passed their standard.

To my own personal observation, I am shooting better, or I have good groups if I used +p bullets compared to the standard one. I haven't used p+....

Whilst I am on the range all my bullets are major load, and I prefer that way.

Thanks

 

[WESHOOT2]

IMNSHO

9x19 = 115g JHP @ 1330fps minimum; don't care what the label says.

 

[weldonjr2001]

I shoot standard pressure stuff out of my CZ75BD and Beretta 92FSC, both full capacity pistols, and +p out of my sigpro 2009 due to its 10 round mags. Makes them all kind of equal in my mind. I'd never carry the sigpro otherwise. Silly isn't it?