How Far is Too Far? Are we close to a revolutionary war?

M4A3

New member
Now thay are talking about spy planes flying over our cities and the military marching through the streets. What next?

I think the general public doesn't even care. So why should we at TFL care? Are people like us the only ones who still care about the constitution and what it stands for? Nope, all people care about now, is a paycheck and a luxury car.

Latley, the Govt. has been walking all over the constitution like it wasn't even there. Like Ca is a perfict example. I'm 23 years old, I can't even imagine what things will be like when I'm 30 at this rate.:(

Why must we ALL pay for the actions of a few? I realy HATE this sniper guy!:mad:
 

qkrthnu

New member
Nope. Not yet.

Here's why:

"Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."
 

Airwolf

New member
We aren't there... yet.

It's going to take more to upset the sheep than a few UAV's overhead. But, this is more of the desensitization that has been going on for years. Just pushing the line back a little further between what is acceptable and what isn't.

Next time they want to try something to push the envelope, people will be quick to say “Oh, but they did ____________ before, this isn’t much more.”
:mad:
 

lgm_rambone

New member
You will know when the time has come young grasshopper.

Actually, living under Tyranny isn't so bad or different from everyday life. People wake up go to work/school, come home, etc. Just every now and then you hear about a police raid where people are killed, but no biggie cuz they were bad anyways. Like the 14 year old girl shot in the back by Modesto Swat. All in days work.

You go about your daily life, but one day you or a family member might just disappear or you might have everything you own taken away by the IRS or DEA or ATF or FBI or (Insert Alphabet Organization Here). But these things are rare and most likely won't happen to you. So stay cool, pay your taxes, keep up to date on the 19389223987490743987 laws on the books. Keep your nose clean and be good citizen.

OH! and Patriot Owl says report your neighbor if they are acting suspicious or if you just don't like them.

If you really think about it though, you really are free to do whatever you want, you just might have to pay for it later. :)


Honestly dude, there will never be a revolution so get that thinking out of your head boy!

What do you think living under tyranny is like? It's like normal everyday life, for the most part.
 

M4A3

New member
Naaww... Most people in the US live in a buble. Driving there luxury car getting the pay check making the house payment. And thay think Haaaa... Life is goood!!

Sooner or later somthing is going to snap. Big thngs happen over night. (9/11/01) You will wake up one morning and all of you're rights will be squat!! (the govt. will own you)

Then/Or you will find some people taking there rights back some whare in the U.S. by force. (hopfully witch will create a snowball effect)

Scary times we live in now days.
 

tc556guy

New member
Are you referring to the military assisting in searching for the sniper in DC? I don't see where their limited role in that search is a problem, as long as they are only in a supporting role.
 

Fred S

New member
Well, I paid for them UAVs, I glad to see them used to go after a criminal.

Using them to search for a killer is one thing, using them to just snoop around is another. The difference is very wide in my opinion.

There is no law that prohibits the military from supporting law enforcement. There is a law that does not allow the military to become law enforcement. The difference here is big too.
 

Ben Swenson

New member
No revolution in our lifetime.
This I believe.

Anyone have a line on a large, inhabitable island for cheap? Say, Australia? I'll want the current gov't out by the first Friday of next month. Better yet, we (TFL) could go take over France and start on the rest of Europe.

Note: Upon reading this, France's nuclear weapons will be fueled and put on high alert.
 

braindead0

New member
I was listening to NPR the other day, and they reported that in Connecticut you can have all of your firearms seized if a judge thinks you are a possible threat to yourself or others.

If that isn't a police state, what is. Just because some idiot judge doesn't like you or your attitude, they seize your guns. I'm sure you'd never get them back either.
 

tc556guy

New member
Brain:

I suspect that that is the case in more states than you realize under the mental health laws. Thats not a police state.....thats a public safety issue. Guns don't belong in the hands of certifiable mental cases, I am sorry. You can argue all you want about the camels nose under the tent, but I hope that you are not advocating that mental cases should have access to firearms.

Whats your answer, if not a judicial seizure order? Who decides that someone is a public safety problem, a mental health problem, and makes sure that those firearms are seized? Who? I am curious what your idea would be.
 

M4A3

New member
but I hope that you are not advocating that mental cases should have access to firearms.

No, shurly not. People like the "sniper" should not have firearms. I'm talking about "normal" people like us that target shoot, hunt, go to gun shows, and brag to our freinds about the new 1911 .45 we just got.
 

vulcan

New member
Cordex, I agree. The "slow boiling of the frog" tactics will continue without setting off the alarm in the sheeples. BTW how about invading Canada? They have a pitiful military & great hunting/fishing!
 

rock_jock

New member
I have never believed that guns will be the catalyst for revolution. It will be another infringement of our rights - free speech or freedom of religion. Realize that most people, even gun owners, don't recognize our RKBA as an essential freedom, or more to the point, as the right which guarantees all others. That's why people are open to gun registration and ballistic fingerprinting - because they don't see the connection to their essential liberty. BUT, take away their right to freely express themselves, to worship as they please, to openly comment on social and moral issues, and very quickly they will see how necessary guns are. Furthermore, we will never have any chance of success without a significant portion of the American public supporting us and joining alongside.

Read this article by conservative columnist John Leo and you'll see where we are heading.

BY JOHN LEO
Bombarded by bans


If you think, as I do, that we are living in the golden age of dubious legal coercion, there is plenty of evidence to support your view. Take the antismoking movement. After prohibiting most indoor smoking, the activists noticed with alarm that people were still trying to smoke outdoors. So various communities banned lighting up in outdoor movie lines, on beaches, in parks, near a school, or in any publicly owned space. Alameda County, Calif., forbids smoking within 15 feet of any window or doorway of any building. Until it became a laughingstock, Maryland's Montgomery County planned to ban smokers from smoking in their own homes if neighbors were offended. Reaching into homes intrigues a lot of the new prohibitionists. A New York judge ruled that a divorced woman could not smoke in her own home when her 13-year-old son came to visit. She smoked only in the bathroom, but that wasn't enough for the judge.

Bias cases are another area where the state sometimes tries to regulate the home. In Madison, Wis., a woman was found guilty of refusing to accept a lesbian housemate. This was a bad ruling, probably unconstitutional, too, but the woman lost and had to pay $23,000 in attorneys' fees. District C of the Los Angeles school system offers another example of high-minded but foolish coercion: Students are not allowed to participate in graduation ceremonies if they do not agree to go on to college, a trade school, an internship, or the military. The district is apparently unable to make a distinction between encouraging college attendance and compelling it.

Scan the newspapers, and you will find many other examples of creative coercion. California just passed a law forcing the state's graduate medical students to undergo abortion training, whether they are interested in it or not. There is a narrow opt-out for conscientious objectors, but none for religious hospitals. They will have to "ensure" that medical personnel get abortion training elsewhere.

The great frontier of do-good coercion is the effort to control speech. The European Union intends to ban "racism and xenophobia," "public insults" of minority groups, and other materials it finds offensive. The word racist could be broadly defined as an aversion to any ethnic group. Here's an example of how this might work: An Exeter man was convicted of insulting a Muslim under England's new "Antiterrorism, Crime, and Security Act," which bans religious hatred. He had denounced Muslims in an argument with a Muslim college student, who, he said, declared that Osama bin Laden is a great man and that "all Americans deserved to die." The student admitted that he "could have said" these things, but he wasn't charged. In Paris, the famous Italian journalist, Oriana Fallaci, is currently on trial for inciting racial hatred in passages of her new novel that disparage Islam. A French novelist is also on trial for offending Muslims, not in his new book but in comments he made about the book.

This month Canadian customs agents impounded newsletters defending Israel's moral right to exist. The material, sent by the Ayn Rand Institute in California to the University of Toronto, was confiscated as possible hate propaganda. University of California-Los Angeles law Prof. Eugene Volokh, on his Volokh Conspiracy Web site, provided a link to the text but warned Canadian viewers that they might get into legal trouble if they accessed the material. After heavy publicity and complaints, customs released the newsletters.

In Canada, censorship is almost a national sport, like lacrosse and hockey. In Saskatchewan last year, a newspaper was fined for publishing an ad that quoted Bible verses on homosexuality. For this human-rights violation, the Saskatoon StarPhoenix and the man who took out the ad had to pay $1,500. Presumably, if the authors of the Bible had been available for trial, Saskatchewan would have dealt sternly with them, too.

Sweden is about to forge ahead of Saskatchewan by passing a constitutional amendment banning all speech or materials opposing homosexuality. When it does, remarks that offend gays could bring a jail term of up to four years. Religious objections to homosexuality would not be allowed, even in churches. In the United States, pro-gay censorship is still in its infancy. A Christian law center filed suit against Pioneer High School in Ann Arbor, Mich., for allegedly removing religion-based criticisms of homosexuality from the text of a student's speech during Diversity Week. The suit says school officials told Betsy Hansen, then 18, that her views would "water down" the "positive" message about homosexuality the school wanted to convey. The suit also says she was kicked off a panel on homosexuality and religion. The officials probably meant well. Coercive people usually do.

I'm sure you can map out the scenarios for a progression of civil disobediance to violent revolution just as I can. The day they make it a crime for people with strong moral convictions to express their un-PC views is the day they will be ready to lock-n-load. On that day, we will finally have support we need to do something about our draconian laws.
 

tyme

Administrator
As long as it's the FBI or police initiating force, let the military fly all the unarmed planes they want. If the military gathers inadmissible evidence and that evidence isn't thrown out by the courts, that would be a problem.

I think Glendening's decree is much more of a disaster.

(tcsd1236) I suspect that that is the case in more states than you realize under the mental health laws. Thats not a police state.....thats a public safety issue. Guns don't belong in the hands of certifiable mental cases, I am sorry. You can argue all you want about the camels nose under the tent, but I hope that you are not advocating that mental cases should have access to firearms.
I suspect brain's point was that judges are not psychologists. There's also the dangerous slope of who's considered a "certifiable mental case," even by shrinks. If they're so dangerous, go through the proper legal procedings to get them committed to a psych hospital.
 

Joe Demko

New member
Are you asking about a civil war or hoping for one? I suggest you take the time to study revolutions and civil wars from a historical perspective. They are frequently long and bloody, marked with atrocities, and almost never turn out the way the revolutionaries envisioned. Don't be in a hurry to take up the cartridge box until you have completely exhausted the soap box and the ballot box.
 

tc556guy

New member
Tyme:

It is my understanding that the judges don't unlaterally make that decision in mental health cases; they take testimony from any affected party, which can include family members and mental health professionals.

As to commitment, you have to understand that in the last 35 years,the rights of mental health patients has become a big issue. The number of mental health beds are very low, and facilities have been closed down. Those people are on the streets, and there are nowhere enough beds left in the system to accomodate everyone who SHOULD be in a facility. The end result is that those folks are out on the street and in our midst.
 

boing

New member
Sorry, SR. We had our big chance in 1999, but the damn computer geeks fixed the Y2K bug and robbed .gov of it's excuse to declare a totalitarian military state.

Damn computer geeks! :mad:

;)


If you want to effect change, take up twoblink's torch and educate a few individuals in your area. The real revolution will be one of public opinion, and that starts with the individual.
 

TallPine

New member
We are rapidly approaching the point to where owning or wanting to own a gun is considered a symptom of mental illness.

Consider the American Medical Assoc stance on guns ..... a disease to be treated and eradicated.

Easy step to "if you own a gun, then you are not fit to own a gun"
 

glockgirl

New member
Well, John Ashcroft was a second-rate politician who lost a Senate race to a DEAD guy and who is so uncomfortable with his own sexuality that he covered up a STATUE of a naked woman so he wouldn't get all excited by her boobies. Dick Cheney was in office before I was born, and appears to have spent most of my lifetime scheming ways to get back into office. Tom Ridge was a fairly happy governor who was given a purely titular office with no authority or money, by a President with the IQ of my pet box turtle.

For these guys, September 11th was the best possible thing that could have happened. There are terrorists! Everywhere! Don't worry about us arresting random people and holding them without charging them! They're guilty anyway! And Bush is busily patting himself on the back for pushing through legislation on the sly that covers healthcare for the unborn child but not the aftercare for the mother...so if the baby tears apart Mom on the way out, hey, the doctor's not going to get paid to stitch her back up. Who cares, right? She's on welfare, and probably a terrorist!! And hey, the economy's going all to Hell, but it's the work of terrorists, not the work of Republican cronies at Halliwell-Burton! Let's go get Saddam Hussein!!

So I don't know about revolutionary war, but if anyone thinks that the Bush White House is doing this country any favours, they need to think again. They've just used a national tragedy to push an agenda they already had...the creation of a totalitarian state.
 

spacemanspiff

New member
sr_15....

i do think this is the best thread you have posted...:p

the sheeple will embrace these new methods at first, but as soon as they realize the severity of their rights being trampled, they will be the loudest to cry 'foul', just like they did with airport security.
 
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