How far can aimless practice go?

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dyl

New member
I'm not trying to apply this to myself, mind you. I'm curious as to how far a person who shoots a lot but thoughtlessly, can go. I'm sure you've met people who never read a single article, never received instruction, etc. But loved shooting so much they did it a lot.

How well did they shoot? Any interesting stories?

Some things like playing piano, guitar, or singing, have plenty of self-taught examples. But with those, the individual is constantly comparing themselves to a standard by listening to recordings, playing along, etc.
 
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aarondhgraham

New member
There's an old saying, "Practice makes perfect".

I think only "perfect practice makes perfect".

Way back in time I was an aspiring Olympic archer,,,
My trainer would always say, "Never practice doing badly".

He would tell me to go to the line and shoot one 6-arrow flight,,,
If the cluster was tight and it felt good,,,
Go ahead and practice more.

But, if that first flight was erratic or it just didn't "feel right",,,
Put the bow down and walk away from the line.

His reasoning was to "Never practice doing something badly".

I'm still not certain if this is "The Way",,,
But he took me from a raw beginner to a valid competitor in just one season.

I know several people who are casual recreational shooters,,,
Their proper name is "Plinkers".

They have a great amount of fun with just "Minute of Coke can accuracy",,,
Who am I to tell them that they should "practice" to be more accurate than that.

I've had just as much fun casually plinking at cans with friends,,,
As I have doing serious practice to become better.

It supposed to be about having a good time,,,
One doesn't need competitive match accuracy to do that.

JM-ns-HO

Aarond

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NoSecondBest

New member
If you want to be a good/great shot, mindless practice will not get you there. No exceptions. You’ll do better than those who don’t shoot much at all, and don’t put anything into getting better, but forget about going somewhere and doing better than those who put the time and effort into it to excel. Shooting is no different than anything else. Whether it’s bowling, golf, archery, etc., without the basic fundamentals and attention to execution and repeatability, you’re not going to get good without putting the effort into it. I’ve won many state and regional titles in handgun, shotgun, archery, and three gun shoots. It was a result of a LOT of time and effort (and considerable expense for equipment) to get there. Casual and less dedicated shooters simply don’t get there. A caveat: in the end, the only reward is personal satisfaction and bragging rights. There’s no money in it and shooting isn’t a major spectator sport.
 
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stinkeypete

New member
My dad used to shoot with some nice cowboy action fellas as he had moved down South. I went to visit him and borrowed some of his guns.

"Maybe start off shooting the pistol plate on the right" he says.

I look, and look and look. "Pistol plate? I don't see it!"

"It's rectangular, on the far right of all the targets" he says.

I look and look and look. For the life of me, I can't see what he means. "I am just going to shoot the big round ones" I say- then knock down the round tip-over plates "boom, boom, boom, boom" I got all ten down, missing one. "Ooops, I really flinched one of them there. Careful, I still have a shot in the pipe." I put the Blackhawk down on the bench and open the loading gate.

My dad picks up the pistol, closes the gate, and shoots this huge bit of iron the size of a refrigerator, of which two are holding the plank that the 8 inch round tip-over plates were on. "That's the pistol target" he says.

The fellas were all looking at me like I had just eaten a puppy or pulled a dragon out of my hat.

"Did I do something wrong?" I asked.

"Those are the rifle plates" one of the fellas said. They walked off, muttering amongst themselves.

I reckon that's my story about what happens when people practice aimlessly. Real nice guys, and they had a lot of fun and comeradery at the range. It turns out a few of them what I met later were excellent marksmen- but they shot competition in the service or over at the other range too... the main body of fellas had no idea what a couple years of concentration on pistol accuracy could accomplish. I am only ranked "marksman" in NRA bullseye- the noob rank. You boys should see what a High Master can do- it will inspire or intimidate you.
 
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Sevens

New member
For me it seems to be about priorities. I love my guns, shooting and handloading lifestyle but I cannot put it ahead of my family and part of what allows me to handle my role for my family is heavy work hours. I spend time on gun forums in bits and pieces. My actual shooting requires reserving an entire day.

Like most things I’ve ever done for fun... I seem to have a decent aptitude for it but nothing earth shattering and I’m fine with that. It occurs to me, like Aarond said above, that I need to take away from it exactly what I want — my enjoyment.

I marvel at what Bullseye shooters can and regularly do accomplish. I too would love to do that, but for where I’m at in life, I have no intention whatsoever to chase that.

Here’s another question that I ask myself often. On the whole, big picture that includes EVERYTHING and not just this hobby/lifestyle we chat about on TFL, but the whole shebang... am I happy? Are YOU happy?

My life is blessed. My skill level behind a handgun fits right in there perfectly.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Exactly, not everyone is practicing for home invasions, gas station car-jackings or the like.
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Agreed. It also doesn't have to be all one or the other. You can have fun or train and even, blasphemy I know, but train and have fun. I've done a lot of training courses. We still smiled, we still laughed even if the subject matter was serious.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
dyl said:
Some things like playing piano, guitar, or singing, have plenty of self-taught examples. But with those, the individual is constantly comparing themselves to a standard by listening to recordings, playing along, etc.
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But shooters have a standard for comparison. That's why targets have scoring rings. Any shooter can compete against himself/herself just by always using the same target (not the same piece of paper, but the same target number), and keeping a record of scores and group sizes. If, over time, the scores improve and the group sizes shrink, their practice is helping. If their scores don't improve and the group sizes don't get smaller, they're not really "practicing," they're just plinking.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
One unusual example that comes to mind is Jelly Bryce. He was self-taught and always shot by drawing a double-action revolver from a holster and firing. When he was recruited by law enforcement it was in part to be on their target shooting team, and he said he would compete for them only if he was allowed to draw and shoot from the hip, which he did and won matches that way. I have no idea what targets they were using in the 1930s police matches, but that's what he fired on. He survived 19 gunfights, IIRC, and apparently was constantly in fear of being ambushed in revenge, which motivated a lot his shooting practice. When he was recruited by the FBI it was in part to see if he could train other agents to shoot the way he did and to draw and shoot as fast as he did, which was in a fraction of a second. He used the crouch position for point shooting, but never could train others to do it as well as he could. In later years he admitted he had a natural advantage that others didn't, which was that he could see the streak of his bullets in flight (he favored the .44 Special, probably in part because it was easier to see than some others), and, like shooting tracers, that had enabled him to correct his aim. He also practiced almost incessantly. He was SAC for one FBI office for awhile (Oaklahoma City?), but was later put on other duty at least in part because he would spend much of every day in his office in front of a full-length mirror practicing dry firing by drawing and shooting so that he could always see straight into the guns muzzle (head shot shooting), rather than getting paperwork done.
 
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Frank Ettin

Administrator
dyl said:
Some things like playing piano, guitar, or singing, have plenty of self-taught examples....
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Sure, but how good are they?

Can you name any self-taught violinists who are now concertmasters with a major symphony orchestra? Can you name any self-taught pianists who have soloed at Carnegie Hall? Can you name any self-taught tenors who have sung Rodolfo with the Metropolitan Opera?

Enough natural skill and talent can take someone a long way. But no matter how much skill and natural talent one has, good training will take him further than he'll be able to go alone.

What's your goal? Karaoke night at the bowling alley? Or La Boheme at the Met?
 
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BJung

New member
My two cents

I learned by being introduced to the basics, and shot my bb gun a lot at twigs and sparrows maybe 20-30 yards away. Years later I volunteered a lot at a shooting range and had a lot of shooting time with my Romanian M69 .22 trainer with open sights. I happened to shoot a number of .22lr brands to find the best ammo for this firearm. My favorite position was sitting and shooting clay pigeon pieces at 100 yards using a sling. My record was a clay pigeon at 200 yards 1st shot. That took maybe 30% skill 70% luck since I had to really lob the bullet in. My pistol shooting is mediocre. I took a class once and never regretted it. I learned a lot and think of a class as a condensation of best practices that saves you time. If you're cheap like me, use the internet, read, and ask questions. Still cheap? find someone who is trained to shoot well and ask them to watch you shoot and correct any mistakes. That's good enough for me.
 
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Koda94

New member
"Aimless practice" will never go as far as reaching any practical application. Plinking and mag dumps are fun but whenever I visit the public range Im amazed at how much ammo is expended. Im not a pro or anything but at least I know a few drills to practice and what they are for.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
It depends...

I used to work with a guy who liked shooting but had a bad flinch. He couldn't shoot a pistol for anything, and wouldn't believe he had a flinch. No amount of shooting was going to make him any better because it wasn't his technique that was messing up his targets, it was his flinch.

I've also known people who got to be pretty good shots without any kind of attempt at working to get better--they just shot for fun and gradually got better.

But if you want to get better, you're going to get better much faster if you practice instead of just plink. And you're almost certainly going to get better by actually working to improve than you will by just shooting a lot.
 
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fastbolt

New member
It's not like it's a rare thing for some shooters to practice their bad techniques, or flinching, so they really ingrain them.

Burning up ammunition to keep doing a poor technique, or a technique poorly, or reinforcing a flinch (as a startle response), may simply be wasting ammunition (which isn't inexpensive nowadays).

I used to tell some shooters that I'd rather they shoot as little as a single magazine's worth of ammunition, focusing on doing a technique properly and well, than just burning through a couple hundred rounds and hoping they'd somehow "improve" by virtue of the amount of powder burned.

We've all been there at some point in learning our handgun skillset foundation.
 
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shafter

New member
Sure, but how good are they?

Can you name any self-taught violinists who are now concertmasters with a major symphony orchestra? Can you name any self-taught pianists who have soloed at Carnegie Hall? Can you name any self-taught tenors who have sung Rodolfo with the Metropolitan Opera?

Enough natural skill and talent can take someone a long way. But no matter how much skill and natural talent one has, good training will take him further than he'll be able to go alone.

What's your goal? Karaoke night at the bowling alley? Or La Boheme at the Met?
Click to expand...

Some of this is comparable to a college degree. You can be whip smart but unless you have the paper credentials you aren't getting through the door. Same with music to some degree.

Shooting, especially pistol shooting at moderate range isn't difficult or complex. If someone understands the fundamentals and is able to focus on mastering them there is no reason why they can't become as good as their eyesight will allow. Where professional instruction comes into play is greatly reducing the time it takes to get there.
 
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aarondhgraham

New member
A generic term for a range visit is "Target Practice".

But every time I go to the range,,,
I'm not particularly going there to practice.

Quite often I'm going there just to turn money into noise.

That's "plinking".

I'm going to the range this coming weekend,,,
I have re-scoped several rifles and am taking three to zero at 50 yards.

That's not plinking,,,
The purpose is to achieve a practical goal.

The next time I go will probably be to plink at spinner targets,,,
One could say that is practice but in reality it will be just for pure trigger-pullin' fun.

Aarond

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GarandTd

New member
"aimless practice"? If I'm shooting, I'm aiming. Most of my shooting is plinking, but it's still shooting at targets. Part of the fun of plinking is hitting my targets. If I'm not making hits, I'm not having near as much fun. Also, a soda can is not a big target. To be minute of soda can isn't exactly shameful. I'm sure I could advance quicker with training and better equipment if that's what I wanted to do.
 
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Big Shrek

New member
When I was younger I heard Tom Knapp say about his shooting,
"that he aimed for the center of the center, no matter how small the target".
That stuck in my head...and that's what I've always aimed for.
A man who can toss an asprin into the air and hit it with a .22lr...you listen to.
He could do it consistently.

And you don't wanna know how many bottles of asprin or thousands of rounds
of .22lr were bought after that, just to hit one occasionally...argh.
 
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