How do we stop Mass Shootings? Gun Bans are in the air!

Garand Illusion

New member
So there is now a combined message from all the anti-gun groups; that we've now reached, or should have reached, a critical mass of multiple shootings recently (and there have been an outrageous number) and it's time to do something about it.

Statement of National Gun Violence Prevention Organizations in Wake of Northern Illinois University Shooting


America is in a gun crisis. Yesterday’s shooting at Northern Illinois University was the sixth mass shooting in less than two weeks. On college campuses, in malls and stores, and in our neighborhoods, our nation is paying the ultimate price for the ease with which we allow almost anyone access to increasingly powerful weaponry. Yet all too many of our elected officials remain deaf to the daily toll guns exact across our nation. Mass shootings are not a force of nature unstoppable by man. They are the predictable result of our nation’s weak gun policies, and much can be done to prevent them.

To prevent future mass shootings we must begin to ratchet down the firepower that is available to civilians.

NOTE: If you predict that giving people access to weapons will cause mass murder, you have a low opinion of humanity -- an opinion that humanity has been living up to recently, admittedly. I'm also interested to know how weaponry has increased in power in the last few decades since I haven't seen anything more "powerful" than the Garands that were available at the end of WWII.

Honestly, BTW ... with young children ... if I thought there were some kind of ban possible that would keep them safer without surrendering their 2nd amendment rights and endangering their future, I'd be all for it. I'd be glad to give up my greater than 10 round mags, even more, if I thought it would help.

But the problem is ... it won't. Even if you limit American's to pump shotguns with no more than a 3 round capacity, the capacity for mass murder is still there. Just find a place with large numbers of unarmed people and no easy exits (like a Illinois college lecture hall) and by keeping some distance between you and the sheep you are there to slaughter you can keep loading and firing that 12 gauge plenty long enough to take out a lot of people. Couple that shotgun with a few molotov cocktails or something similar, send a few letters to local papers ahead of time with pictures, and you are SURE to be made famous forever. Or until a few more killers go beyond you.

Even limiting people to something like a single shot bolt action rifle ... again, just plan your attack around the weaponry you have (and of course with no guns available there are always other weapons -- like the explosives used in the greatest school massacre in American history in Bath, MI, in 1928).

But make no mistake, the anti-gun groups WILL try to "ratched" down what is available to us. They will once again fight for one gun a month, registration, whatever they can even though it wouldn't have affected this shooting and not many of the others throughout history.

Let's take a look at their new suggestions:

And we urge federal and state policymakers to act immediately to implement policies such as those outlined below that will work to reduce the carnage:

* An effective ban on all semiautomatic assault weapons. In addition, the Bush Administration should act immediately to better enforce the existing federal ban on the importation of foreign-made assault weapons.

* A complete ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

* Ensure that all gun sales at gun shows are subject to a background check.

* Establish a system whereby university officials are notified when a student purchases a gun from a gun dealer.”

Looking at these ... the most recent assault didn't involve Assault Weapons, but from what I've read they are probably including semi auto handguns as well. For the reasons I talked about before, that wouldn't help. The most recent shooting was with an inexpensive shotgun.

High Cap magazines -- useless. I saw somewhere that with Cho, if he'd had 10 round mags he just would have had to have reloaded 3 more times.

Background check at gun shows -- but the most recent shooting were either with legally purchased guns or stolen guns.

A system where university officials are notified? Wow. Hard to imagine how they will be able to identify University students at a point of sale -- I guess you create an online database of everyone who's currently a student. And then you notify the university so they can ... what. Ban the student from campus? Put him into counseling for buying a gun? And if they ban students automatically from the campus, unless they set up checkpoints all the way around campus to keep him out how will that help? (about as much as a "no massacres allowed" sign!).

So ... after much thought ... I hate to sound like a "gun nut," but the ONLY solution I can see is to allow adults to carry weapons to protect themselves. This has already worked in a few situations (not so well reported since there were few deaths) and could have worked in Illinois.

I would also like to see newspapers begin limiting their coverage of these things, as they already do with suicides (it's well known that reporting on a suicide can cause more, so few are written about) but I don't know of a way to enforce that with laws. It has to be voluntary, and as long as the public wants to see every picture of a shooter and hear his angry video manifesto shooting innocents and committing suicide will be an effective way to get the limelight.

Any other ideas? Anything welcome. Even new gun control laws.
 

Perldog007

New member
The solution is what it always has been. You are responsible for your own defense. When more people get that spree shooters will get less air time.
 

Yellowfin

New member
The problem is always what it has been: people forced into helplessness by rules prohibiting them from defending themselves, sheeple who embrace helplessness as a solution, then some maniac comes along to take advantage of them. I'm yet to see a single psycho go to a rifle range to plan a killing spree. The further problem with them is that one day is that they not only open the door for psychos getting their way with bullets first, but those who use ballots first.
 

Doublestack

New member
Homefries, I liked that!!!

I just posted this as a response to another thread, but it applies here too. So rather than re-type it, I took the lazy way out and did a cut and paste. Hope Y'all don't mind.

Every "Gun Free Zone" uses the same brain-dead logic. Don't think for a minute that they believe that it reduces crime. It is about exerting control over us, the law abiding. Pure and simple. We keep shouting from the rooftops, "CRIMINALS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED CRIMINALS". We are wasting our breath. THEY ALREADY KNOW THIS!!! They do not care about crime or criminals. They simply want to control the populace. That means you and I. If they can, they will, at every opportunity. A few mass killings here and there are not going to deter them from their agenda.

This whole SCOTUS ruling on Heller and the individuals RKBAs should send shock waves throughout the "We know what's best for you" crowd!

DS
 

Magnum Mike

New member
I really dont know what to say! I know I could get a cement truck and hit the sidewalk at noon in town here, and take out 50+ in 1 trip. Now if I left a note before I did this would people wake up and outlaw those damn CEMENT trucks. I mean come on now! Those things are dangerous!
 

Yellowfin

New member
Actually, the usual suspects have been surprisingly quiet following this and other recent shootings.
Actually no. They've been hard at work getting ammo serialization legislation in the work in a lot of states and seeking out any pro CCW efforts and making sure they have a person at every one of them to refute it. I never thought there were so many Brady ****s until I started seeing them pop every time there's a city council meeting in CA, SCCC person making a public appearance, pro gun law in committee, etc, etc. Seriously, why does it always appear that they're the only side that has full time people on the payroll?
 

armedtotheteeth

New member
i AGREE, those who want to ban guns, simply want to Hold their big iron fist over our heads and say " Who's your DADDY? " or Haha haahaa, i got your guns!!:barf: gun grabbers suck, that coalition against gun violence or what ever made me sick,, gun guys as they call it. They want to ban everything. They got Californiaitis!! Lets ban 50's , Semi automatic guns, anything over 10 round cap, I mean cmon, 50 cals?? Who the hell uses them in Crimes???
 
I have to wonder if I should be frutstrated by or be oblivious to such utter stupidity. I used to think they were misinformed but that is not possible A friend of mine has a standing joke. Before you can run for public office you must first be a news reporter becuase it teaches you how to lie. A recent CBS interview with one of the students involved in the most recent shooting said the gun could only fire one shot at a time. The news anchor said "So it wasn't a semi-auto?" This was that Ann Coulter BTW.... The media is so stupid that they have reduced the inteligence of the entire nation. Not just about firearms. There's a reason I no longer watch the news. I was just discussing this at work today. At some point the media crossed the line between reporting the news in unbiased manner to using their postion to broadcast a political viewpoint. I have at time thought that maybe we should ban all guns and see what happens. But the antis lack the inteligence to see that it wouldn't work even if they did have their wish. Great Brittian comes to mind. I apoligize if I come across as offensive, but I can think of no other reason why a group of people would so blindly push for a concept which has failed over and over again. I don't buy the conspiracy theory about it involving "secret societies" From what I've seen there exist people who actualy believe gun control will stop crime and conspiracies play no part of their thoughts.

Sod Breaker,
 

jrfoxx

New member
Why is it that no one ever attempts to go on a killing spree at a crowded gun range, gun shop, gun show, NRA convention, or SHOT show?Is certainly isnt because there arent enough people there to kill, because most of those places, on a regular day, would have as many, if not more, people available to shoot than a college, high school, or grade school classroom.Could it be because even a crazed sociopath hell bent on murder followed by suicide knows he would likely only get 1 or 2 victems before being cut down in a hail of gunfire, thus preventing him from attaining his goal of killing MANY people? gee, I dont know, but it seems to be the case to me....
 

Freedom_1st

Multiply registered, multiply banned troll.
Both this shooter and the Virgina Tech shooter had been hospitalized for psychiatric problems.

People with serious emotional problems should not be allowed to purchase firearms.
 

buzz_knox

New member
Actually, the usual suspects have been surprisingly quiet following this and other recent shootings.

They don't want to raise the gun issue and thereby arouse gunowners who are either staying home or voting Dem this go around. The plan to lull the masses into an absurd state of confidence in their rights being protected is working. Once either Dem is elected, you'll see them get loud again, and push their proposals through.
 

Musketeer

New member
Sorry but arguing that there are not mass shootings at gun ranges and shows is a hollow argument.

These attacks are carried out for maximum media attention and horror. Even if the same amount of people were killed at a gun show or range it would not have the same effect as such a killing at a school or mall. Most people do not spend significant time at ranges and gun shows, they do or have family that does spend time at schools and malls.

What should be changed is the method of reporting. These killers are looking for posthumous fame and they know it will be given to them. Stop reporting their names and faces and they will go back to blowing their own brains out in a closet.
 

Musketeer

New member
Of course the stories of him just having snapped are wearing out. The girlfriend no reports that he was seeing a psychiatrist regularly and had stopped taking his medicine. While she says he wasn't violent he was acting erratic and had a short temper.

Here is some advice for this bimbo should she date another similar individual.

When your boyfriend who has a history of being committed, cutting himself and depression ignores his doctor's orders, stops taking his meds, begins acting erratically/short temperred and buys a couple guns CALL HIS PSYCHIATRIST!!!
 

JWT

New member
The 'media' reports he purchased the guns legally. Haven't seen much that stated he lied on his paperwork to purchase the guns when he didn't disclose he had a metal condition on the ATF form 4473.
 

Lawyer Daggit

New member
As an Australian Lawyer who has taken an interest in this subject since his Uni days when he wrote a thesis on the topic (graduated in 1984) I don't think that the solution lies with gun laws.

I attended a conference over here in the early 80's- Don Kates and Frank Zimmring were present and everyone expected them to be at one anothers necks. Zimring held up a poster of Texas State Massacre and predicted correctly that unless media commentary could be brought under control this would be a growing problem.

He suggested reporting of such incidents be cut to reporting the facts in plain, non emotive language and not naming the perpetrator. He suggested that they should be desribed as a failure in pathetic terms creating a mantle that noone wouldl like to air.

The second thing you must do is get serious about breaking down the 'hood' and integrating your black and south american into mainstream America. Until this happens you are not going to resolve this issue.Study your stats closely, in white ango saxo protestant areas your crime levels are akin to wasp areas throughout the world incl canada, all of your crime centres around 10% of the population, gang wars.

Gun Registration is a waste of time- don't let them lay that one on you.
I suggest individual licensing- with mandatory safe keeping laws- there are devices you can get that enable you to quickly access an handgun whilst it is unavaillable to a child . This wil but down on child accidents.

Look at giving psychiatrists the power to tip off authorities in a patient is a potential risk, but give the individual a power to review so that a psych verdict attached to your gun licence does not bar you for good and that it only bars you while you are sick or predictably likely to be sick. Ie a person who self refers after seeing a psychatirst only looses his guns until his condition has been regulated and he only receives his firearms if he is stable and treated under a treatment plan written in a way that he guarantees he takes meds- by verifiable means.

Fund some decent research in Aussie that shows how the legislation has not worked. We have had crazy laws since 1996 and it is time they were shown to be inneffective. Local researchers have started doing this but few researchers in Australia know firearms and are not therefore good subjects to undertake the task.
 

Perldog007

New member
Both this shooter and the Virgina Tech shooter had been hospitalized for psychiatric problems.

People with serious emotional problems should not be allowed to purchase firearms.

Actually, most patients (on the order of 95% waaaay back when I took psych 101) who seek care on thier own are much less dangerous than the rest of us. You could make a strong argument not to let anybody have a gun unless they had been through psychotherapy and found not to be a danger to themselves or others.

Just because somebody has not been diagnosed does not mean there are no issues. All humans have some degree of mental illness. One in ten could benefit from treatment at some time in their life.

The problem is, there is usually a certain level of bare intelligence involved in those with mental illness. If they really want guns, they will get them just like any other criminal.

Think about it, a person who is paranoid, psychopathic, enraged, whatever goes to the gun store and the background check flags them because they are in treatment. Do they say "Darn! no guns for me"?

Also if we ban all patients regardless of disposition from purchasing or owning firearms would this stop people from seeking help when they need it?

LIke Dr. Thompson says in her essay "Raging against Self Defense" homicidal impulses are normal. It's how we act on them that makes a difference. The Prozac effect seems to cause homicidal impulses to be acted on in some patients.

The current law is committed involuntarily or adjudicated mentally defective Seems like a good standard.

Perhaps we should look at the connection between medications and mass shootings?


What I want to know is why we are so fixated when these tragedies occur as to "Where did this person get these guns?".

Does it really matter? 20,000 gun laws on the books tell us people will get them when they want them. How about we look for real solutions instead of band aids?

Do people who are prescribed prozac get a warning about all the spree shooters who also took the drug?

Do we ask who perscribed this medication?

Just some random thoughts. I don't think we should make it easy for dangerous people to get guns. Also don't think we should be stupid enough to think that is going to stop them.
 

Musketeer

New member
Lawyer Daggit said:

He suggested reporting of such incidents be cut to reporting the facts in plain, non emotive language and not naming the perpetrator. He suggested that they should be desribed as a failure in pathetic terms creating a mantle that noone wouldl like to air.

BINGO!!! That is exactly what I have been saying. The desire for fame is the same motivation many assassins of high profile figures crave. Gavin DeBecker reports the same thing in "The Gift of Fear." He is pretty anti due to some personal history but is bang on when it comes to describing the types of personalities who are stalkers, serial killers, rampage killers and assassins.
 
Top