This has probably been dicsussed on other threads in the past but I just wondered about other shooter's experiences when cleaning your guns. I just cleaned 3 rifles yesterday after several hours of shooting and I reflected that I rarely ever get those patches totally free of black. The blue might disappear but the soot remains. How many patches does it typically take those of you who stay with it until the patch out looks like the original new patch in? How important is it to get all traces of fired material out of the barrel?
How clean can you get?
- Thread starter cdoc42
- Start date
I've heard it said that most bore damage happens because of cleaning rods. The more you patch it, the higher the risk of damage from the rod.
I now use a home-made electronic bore cleaner. Once it is done doing it's job, I use 1 patch wrapped around a bronze brush (one caliber smaller than what I am working on) to dry the bore, and push out the gunk that remains. Then a second patch to pick up anything I missed. Then a 3 rd patch lightly oiled to protect the bore. That's it. 3 patches and it's down to bare steel just like the day it was manufactured.
I now use a home-made electronic bore cleaner. Once it is done doing it's job, I use 1 patch wrapped around a bronze brush (one caliber smaller than what I am working on) to dry the bore, and push out the gunk that remains. Then a second patch to pick up anything I missed. Then a 3 rd patch lightly oiled to protect the bore. That's it. 3 patches and it's down to bare steel just like the day it was manufactured.
All this effort seems to mimic what I do. I must have tried every product on the market over the years, the latest being "Wipe-Out" due to a recommendation on these threads. At times I played chemist and mixed two products together until it dawned on me that I couldn't tell if this was causing some kind of detrimental reaction in the bore (never saw smoke or steam....)
But aside from Kawabuggy and his home-made brew, the questions still remain:
1) if you clean until the patch is pristine, how many patches does it usually take?
2) if you are satisfied to see black as long as there is no blue, how does it affect your accuracy?
But aside from Kawabuggy and his home-made brew, the questions still remain:
1) if you clean until the patch is pristine, how many patches does it usually take?
2) if you are satisfied to see black as long as there is no blue, how does it affect your accuracy?
I have been down this road and came to the conclusion a new rifle like a new car will never be quite as clean as the day you brought it home. I have spent hours and dozens of patches trying to accomplish this without absolute success. I get them as clean as possible and live with it. The only thing I have not tried is long term (days) soaking of solvent in the barrel.
TheNatureBoy
New member
Ditto 7MMGUY. I get my barrels as clean as I can and pack them away til' the next trip. If my patches comes out with a little residue on it I can live with it.
Clean bores are overrated. I have one rifle that won't shoot a decent group until at least ten rounds leave the muzzle. Another is OK clean but really shines after two fouling shots. Most others do fine clean but I don't knock myself out getting them perfectly clean. My PPC revolver fired 20K + rounds after it's last bore cleaning. I shoot 22's until performance suffers, bad idea with 17 rimfires though. 
Clean, fouled. Just another facet of a rifle's personality IMHO. If you have a rifle that won't shoot, no matter what, get it dirty. YMMV.
Clean, fouled. Just another facet of a rifle's personality IMHO. If you have a rifle that won't shoot, no matter what, get it dirty. YMMV.
To truly clean a barrel takes days. You have to clean it repeatedly over the course of a few days to bring all of the residue to the surface of the metal for removal. I learned this in the Army some 40+ years ago.
As a tank commander, I had to supervise the cleaning of our main gun and it took 4 separate cleanings over 4 days to remove all the dirt from the pores of the gun tube. I was responsible for the TC's M-2 50. An it got cleaned multiple days too.
The co-ax 30 cal was gunners responsibility as the M-60 was the loader's. The driver didn't get off scott free, he had the engine and trans to take care of.
As a tank commander, I had to supervise the cleaning of our main gun and it took 4 separate cleanings over 4 days to remove all the dirt from the pores of the gun tube. I was responsible for the TC's M-2 50. An it got cleaned multiple days too.
The co-ax 30 cal was gunners responsibility as the M-60 was the loader's. The driver didn't get off scott free, he had the engine and trans to take care of.
In general, once carbon gets cold it hardens up to a point. As a result, if your range rules allow, you'll always find cleaning easier if you can run a patch of solvent into the bore before you zip the gun case up and leave. Ed's Red is fine for that purpose. Gunzilla is one of my favorites for carbon these days and can be used the same way. Wet patch at the range, then do the rest at home, later.
There seems to be a lot of irony in this topic. Spend half a day getting the last of the soot out of the bore and what's the first thing one does before a match? That's right, foul the bore with 5-10 rounds.
I found that my 5-R Milspec (Rem) shoots great if I merely run a brush through several times followed with some KROIL. I let it sit for about half an hour and then run several patches through until they are reasonably clean (meaning very little soot). About once a month (I shoot weekly), after brushing, I run a mop soaked with Sweets and let it sit for 30 minutes. I then run patches moist with KROIL through until the blue is gone and I only get light soot.
5 rounds to foul the bore and I'm back to shooting ragged holes at 100 yards and if I'm real patient, 1" groups at 300 yards.
No half day cleaning sessions for me.
I found that my 5-R Milspec (Rem) shoots great if I merely run a brush through several times followed with some KROIL. I let it sit for about half an hour and then run several patches through until they are reasonably clean (meaning very little soot). About once a month (I shoot weekly), after brushing, I run a mop soaked with Sweets and let it sit for 30 minutes. I then run patches moist with KROIL through until the blue is gone and I only get light soot.
5 rounds to foul the bore and I'm back to shooting ragged holes at 100 yards and if I'm real patient, 1" groups at 300 yards.
No half day cleaning sessions for me.
As Nick mentioned, cleaning your rifle while it is warm will make things easier and quicker. I shoot a lot of short range BR and clean most of my rifles after 10 to 15 shots or between relays. It is possible to get the bore squeaky clean in that short time if you use the right chemicals, a bronze brush and elbow grease. The reason I know is that I have looked inside my barrel with my borescope. I used to use Shooter's Choice MC#7 and Kroil until all the carbon was out (3 tight Butch's triple twill patches) and then let it sit for a couple of minutes--brush--- then the SC and Kroil again patched dry and followed by JB Bore Brite and then the SC and Kroil again. In a stainless target barrel this works just fine. Factory barrels have more tool marks and chatter marks for copper to be stripped off so I use the same method for them except that instead of the Bore Brite I use the regular JB cleaner.
These days for match barrels I use Shooter's Choice Aqua Clean--then brush--one more Aqua Clean patch--then patch dry and follow with the SC and Kroil. I still use the JB in factory barrels. I was using nylon brushes for a while because I did not like the false copper traces I was getting with bronze when using Bore Tech Eliminator--another good cleaner--but with the Aqaua Clean I have gone back to the bronze. They work much better and last longer than the nylon and NO they do not scratch stainless steel bores.
A lot of the people I know who have borescopes said that they bought them partly to be able to troubleshoot barrel problems, partly to keep an eye on throat erosion, and partly to see if all the "wonder cleaners" really work. I have to admit I did the same thing and I also admit I have to agree with those folks when they say there's no substitute for elbow grease. It may be possible to clean a barrel by filling it full of chemical and letting it sit in the closet for a week or so, but I don't have the time or inclination to do that. Barrels can be cleaned right down to the metal in just a few minutes if you are willing to do the (gasp!) work. I've made a sort of sub-hobby of trying all the wonder cleaners I can get my hands on and so far I have not been impressed with any "brushless" cleaner, including ultrasonic. I have one I will sell cheap............
A lot of people don't use a tight enough patch to do much good--that's one reason for the never ending carbon traces. Bore snakes may be like running a hundred patches trough your barrel as one makers claims, but a thousand loose fitting patches do not do the job of a few reasonably tight fitting ones. There is a very good explanation of proper patch fitting and the use of JB bore cleaners on the Brownell's website in the tech section. Anyone who thinks rifles can never be cleaned like new needs to read that.
These days for match barrels I use Shooter's Choice Aqua Clean--then brush--one more Aqua Clean patch--then patch dry and follow with the SC and Kroil. I still use the JB in factory barrels. I was using nylon brushes for a while because I did not like the false copper traces I was getting with bronze when using Bore Tech Eliminator--another good cleaner--but with the Aqaua Clean I have gone back to the bronze. They work much better and last longer than the nylon and NO they do not scratch stainless steel bores.
A lot of the people I know who have borescopes said that they bought them partly to be able to troubleshoot barrel problems, partly to keep an eye on throat erosion, and partly to see if all the "wonder cleaners" really work. I have to admit I did the same thing and I also admit I have to agree with those folks when they say there's no substitute for elbow grease. It may be possible to clean a barrel by filling it full of chemical and letting it sit in the closet for a week or so, but I don't have the time or inclination to do that. Barrels can be cleaned right down to the metal in just a few minutes if you are willing to do the (gasp!) work. I've made a sort of sub-hobby of trying all the wonder cleaners I can get my hands on and so far I have not been impressed with any "brushless" cleaner, including ultrasonic. I have one I will sell cheap............
A lot of people don't use a tight enough patch to do much good--that's one reason for the never ending carbon traces. Bore snakes may be like running a hundred patches trough your barrel as one makers claims, but a thousand loose fitting patches do not do the job of a few reasonably tight fitting ones. There is a very good explanation of proper patch fitting and the use of JB bore cleaners on the Brownell's website in the tech section. Anyone who thinks rifles can never be cleaned like new needs to read that.
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