How can you have a loaded 1911a1??

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kraigwy

New member
Didn't want to step on one of the topics below, but how can one call a loaded 1911 "STYLE" pistol a 1911a1.

A 1911a1 isn't loaded, its basic. (As seen in the picture below). I have a Series 70 Gold Cup, I don't even consider it a 1911, its not, it's a Gold Cup.

A 1911a1 is just that, a simple non-gimmick rattling pistol. Little bitty fixed sights. Interchangeable parts from pistol to pistol.

I consider the 1911a1 to be "as issued", without modification. Its like turning a 4" pencil barreled Model 10 service revolver into a PPC custom gun. It is no longer a Model 10 servicer revolver.

USSC%201911%20Slide%202.JPG
 
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AK103K

New member
Well...... you either have the "real" thing, or you have one of the "clones".

I only ever considered Colt or the GI guns to be "real", and even Colt started to stray.

If you really want to start trouble, jump over to the "rifle" section, an go from there with the M14, M16 and AK's (and both their siblings), that should be entertaining. :)
 
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DannySeesUSMC

New member
That is the one, but we've learned to modify our weapons - even when it's not always best :cool:

We've had so many improvements in metallurgy and other areas, you can't really build'em how they used to be even if you wanted. Change specs, change materials, it's not the same thing as an old 1911.

All of the pistols built within the last how ever many years will always be inspired clones and not the real deal - but it's nice because we shoot JHP's now, use two hands with a high grip, and we like to actually use the sights.
 
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Webleymkv

New member
If you want to get that technical about it, no "real" 1911A1's have been made since 1945. The only "real" 1911A1's were military issue, even the commercial Colts are technically not 1911A1's but rather Model O Government Models. Also, Colt is not the only company to have ever made a "real" 1911 or 1911A1: Singer, Remington-Rand and others did as well.

Really though, what difference does it make? My S&W 1911 works just like a "real" 1911 with the exception of the extractor and FP-block safety, it feels just as good in the hand, and it shoots just as good if not better, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
 
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Deaf Smith

New member
Well I consider Colt SSAs to be true SSA revolvers and all others just gimmicks. Sounds silly right?

Look gang, I'm not an Amish person who still lives in the 1800s as for views on things. My life is not set in stone at the time period of 1911, or 1873 or any era. I don’t drive a Mustang, I don’t ride a Harley, and I sure don’t pack a 1911 as it was produced in 1911!

The 1911 has progressed. It never was perfect (and still isn't.) Heck Glocks out last any 1911 in a torture test!

I have one 1991A1 Colt that is mostly stock, but all my other 1911s are 'enhanced' so to speak. And they are better for the improvements.

Deaf
 
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44 AMP

Staff
The sad truth....

is that people call things what ever they want, whether it is the proper name, or not. And that includes firearms makers. They name products to appeal to the buyers. For instance, while we know that there is a clear difference between a magazine and a clip, at least one firearms maker has listed their magazines as "clips" in a catalogue. And while we argue a lot about whether it is the .45 Colt, or the .45 Long Colt, gun makers have listed it both ways.

It is true that the only "real" M1911A1s are those pistols used in government service (no matter which manufacturer made them), but it is common usage to call any 1911A1 pattern gun a "1911".

If you read old gun magazines and books, you find that they didn't call them 1911s, they called them Colt .45s or .45 autos. That was because for better than half a century the only common .45 auto was the Colt Government Model, in civilian trim or the 1911A1 in GI guise.

When it comes to a tricked out, or customized gun, the gun always stays what it started out as. A S&W model 10 heavily modified for PPC is still a S&W Model 10. Its just not factory stock anymore. I got a Remington Rand 1911A1 recently that someone has put on target sights, new trigger, one of those enormous beavertail grip safeties and stippled the frontstrap of the frame. :)( sigh...) but it is still a 1911A1. Just not worth anything to a military collector anymore. Good shooter, though.
 
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zippy13

New member
Kraig,

It's all a matter of semantics, we often describe something that's very specific in generic terms to get another person thinking in the same ball park as we are. You tell me it's a Series 70 Gold Cup, and I'll know what you mean. To someone who doesn't know much about guns, he might not have a clue about what you mean. So, you might tell him your Gold Cup a 1911-type pistol. If he still has a blank look on his face, calling it a target version of the GI 45-Automatic might give him a clue. Problems arise when we describe something in generic terms that don't apply because they are wrong, or too specific. Calling a Gold Cup a 1911a1 is just a wrong as calling a 1911a1 a Gold Cup type pistol. Different branches from the same tree are likely to be different.

Problems arise when we can't tell the branches from the tree. How would you describe a Colt's Sporter match gun to a non-shooter? Calling it an AR-15A2(NM) would give you a general idea, but what about the non-shooter? Would you be happy calling it a civilian version of the military's M16 match rifle? The waters get a little muddy here, since the M16 and the Sporter are both derivatives of the AR-15 (ArmaLite Model 15), can we describe the Sporter as an M16 derivative? I don't think it matters as long as you get your general idea across. So, calling a Gold Cup a 1911-type or a 1911a1-type doesn't really matter; but, the more generic GI .45-auto is a reference probably understood by more folks.

We need to look beyond our choice of words and think how may be misinterpreted. Take this thread, in your title you used the word loaded. My first thought was, because this is a gun related forum, that loaded meant it had a charged magazine. So, initially, your title didn't make any sense to me. It seems you meant the used car definition of loaded: equipped with all the available options. What seems crystal clear to you may not always be to others.
 
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Sgt Pepper

New member
Look, if Browning was still living in the present day, the 1911A1 would most likely now have evolved into the 1911D1, or 1911A7, or the Model of 1957, or...you get the picture. In fact, the 1911A1 was set aside for the M9. If the pinnacle prize to you is the original 1911A1 as issued in the early part of the latter century, amen brother. Live it, love it, and shoot it.
 
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jglsprings

New member
It's a marketing toy (I did mean toy) to get people to buy more guns.

That way a person can get a basic 1911 with an extra feature or two.

Mostly has to do with building in a slightly higher price point.

Marketing people could care less about accuracy.

P.S.

Kraig, is the snow and cold weather starting to wear on you? You aren't usually so philosophical
 
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AK103K

New member
is a Camaro with leather interior and a Bose stereo system not a Camaro?
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Well, thats true. And I suppose its still one, when its now running on 5 cyclinders, after the "tune up", when it was just running on three when it came from the factory, and the fancy after market 8 track just ate your Deep Purple Machine Head tape. Yea, its a Camaro.

My VW Rabbit on the other hand, came loaded, with fuel injection and a cassette player and a Nena cassette in it, and her poster was in the back seat, and she was singing 99 Luft Balons (hey, what can I say, Nena was hot. :) ) when I started the thing up.
 
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markj

New member
I have a gi model and a SA loaded, I sure like shooting them both. They dont know the diff so I am not gonna tell em.
 
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amd6547

New member
If the Master himself, John Browning, were to look at a gun show table of Gold Cups, Wilsons, Baers, Rock Islands, Paras and Norincos, he would say "My 1911's..."....So whats the problem?
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
FWIW, I agree with Webleymkv; "Model 1911" and "Model 1911A1" are the miltary names and strictly speaking should be applied only to those pistols made for or by the U.S. military. I think it is a losing battle, though.

I just use the term "1911 type" for the Colt GMs and the various clones and junkers that sort of resemble the military pistol, except that unlike the GI guns, many don't work.

Jim
 
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Boats

Moderator
Heck Glocks out last any 1911 in a torture test!
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Bullsheet!:cool:

Some examples:

Google "Vickers Sand Test" and read about a G21 coming in dead last behind two different 1911 pistols.

Go to youtube search out a series of videos for "1000 round torture test" and watch a very, very, ordinary Para-Ord 1911 go through a 1000 round continuous fire test with just one shooter on the trigger, without jamming once, and nothing melting in under eleven minutes.

Then watch a G19 melt out its guide rod and choke five times, with the good ol' boys at "Tactical Response Alumni Weekend" <snort> who go on and blame their ammo. Do note that it also took two of them firing the G19 and tiring out their poor fingers with that crappy two part trigger to get to 1000 rounds in fourteen minutes firing a far easier caliber.

Glocks are overrated garbage.

Glocks are "sold" at rock bottom prices via the use of carnival style tricks to "impress" the bean counters at cop shops. Then the great unwashed masses subsidize the whole mess of them by vastly overpaying for theirs.
 
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AK103K

New member
Glocks are overrated garbage.
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Dont hold back. Tell us how you really feel. :)



I put my "Ponies" out to a well deserved pasture years ago. I dumped the rest of the copys. Couldnt bare the thought they might pollute the gene pool while spending all that time together sitting in the safe.

Dont get mad or nothin, but these days, I carry a Glock. :D
 
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