How can trigger pull improve with time?

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Fer

New member
I do not understand and maybe you can tell me how it works.
If trigger pull is heavy out of the box on a revolver J frame in my case a Taurus 851 (not to say that my trigger pull is heavy) but how can anyone expect it to improve by just shooting the gun or dry firing the gun, what happens internaly that will improve the weight of the trigger pull?

Thanks,

FER
 
T

Tacoma

New member
To amplify what Joe said, When a smith does a trigger /action job, allot of the effort is stoneing the internal parts to make them smooth so they slide against each other with less friction. Esentially, when you work the action 1000 times, you are makeing the parts wear against each other to provide the same smoothening action. Less friction= less force needed to move the parts so the trigger gradually gets lighter and smoother without ever touching the spring. The action job is just does it a little more thorough and faster.
 
F

Fer

New member
Tacoma,

Will the action eventually become as good as if it was done by a gun Smith? even if it takes longer?
 
W

Windjammer

New member
Fer,

IMHO, you can make a noticeable improvement in the action by cycling it, but it can not replace a quality trigger job by a smith who knows what he is doing.

It all depends on how you are going to use the gun and how critical you are about the trigger feel. If your shooting IDPA matches you do not want a super light, sensitive action, in bulleye matches you want the exact opposite, hunting and plinking somewhere in between.;)

Again just MHO :)
 
T

Tacoma

New member
Will the action eventually become as good as if it was done by a gun Smith? even if it takes longer?
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Kind of depends on the expertise and thouroughness of the smith to start. Also, in many cases the Smith will replace the springs with lighter ones ( not recomended for carry/defence guns) . In my experience some older guns will eventually get actions that are sweet enough that you wouldn't want to mess with them. ( Don't forget , some of these were hand fit to begin with.) However, while lots of cycling will improve nearly any action significantly, it will rarely get you quite the smoothness and lightness that a profesional trigger job could. Of course, one is free and the other isn't ;)
 
L

Little Silas

New member
I have an old 1912 S&W Hand Ejector that is so smooth you wouldn't believe it.
I doubt seriously if it ever had a trigger job. Just plenty of shooting including me.
It goes to the range at least once a month for a couple of cylinders of shooting.
 
F

Fer

New member
How come I have heard that dry firing a revolver might cause damage to it.
How does it afect the revolver? the firing pin does not make contact with the cilinder,I know that on rimfire revolvers it is diferent bot on centerfire it should not afect the revo.
So if I want to smoothout the internal works of my revo I need to fire a lot and dry fire my gun, can I do it?
 
W

Windjammer

New member
Fer,

A review of the Taurus Model 851SS manual, states that
Code: 
Dry Firing is bad for this firearm

I carry a model 85, they are OK as a carry gun. IMHO they are not high volume shooters, I don't think that the gun will hold up to a allot of shooting. I shoot 5 - 10 rounds a month with mine. I installed a set of Woffl springs, which helped the trigger pull, but beside that it is what it is.

If you want to burn up some ammo, you'll need something from Ruger or Smith. I have put over 8,000 rounds ( closer to 10,000 I think) though my GP100. Also Ruger states in their manual that "the GP100 can be dry fired without causing damage to the firearm."
 
T

Tacoma

New member
Rimfire revolvers /pistols should not be dryfired as the fireing pin can pean the edge of the chamber. However, most modern center fire revolvers/pistols will not be hurt by dryfireing ( and the factory will tell you so.) My guess (FWIW) is that the few companies that warn against it are concerned with some low failure rate ( due to design, materials, etc) that will drive warrenty or litigations costs .
 
G

Gazpacho

New member
Windjammer, your Model 85 should withstand 100s if not 1000s of +P rounds just fine. Plus, should you ever actually have to used it in SD, it won't hrt as much when the cops take it away from you as evidence, as opposed to that Tactical Scandium Race revolver Smith and Wesson that you really want to carry.

Fer, one of the best things you can do for your Taurus is to take the grips off, then flush out the action with an entire can of WD-40. Then flush out the WD-40 with a good CLP. Taurus is know for shipping out revolvers with a lot of manufacturing grit still in the gun.
 
M

Majic

New member
I carry a model 85, they are OK as a carry gun. IMHO they are not high volume shooters, I don't think that the gun will hold up to a allot of shooting.
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Why would you think that? I had one for 15 years (bought used) that served as an all purpose go anywhere revolver. It did countless hours as a woods or riverbank plinker as it went virtually everywhere. Today it still goes to the range several times a month with my son (the new owner since he shot it so much growing up) plus it's outdoor duties. Who knows how many rounds have been down the tube and it's been trouble free.
What would you base the gun on not being able to hold up to a lot of shooting?
 
W

Windjammer

New member
Gazpacho,
Huh, I carry what I want to carry. The Model 85 is a cheap OK quality snubbie, if its gets stolen I have not lost much.
If I had a need for or just wanted a "Tactical Scandium Race revolver " I would buy one. I would find room for it in one of my gun safes.

Majic,
Ive had to use a "small thread, removable" adhesive on the screw that holds the cylinder in place. Twice during shooting sessions this screw has backed out. I'm sure my gun is the only one that has had this problem. IMHO a steady diet of +P rounds will cause the gun to loosen up and the back strap to give up. This is my opinion ( everyone has one) based on other guns I own and have used, your mileage may vary. Also a 38 spl snubb nose is the last thing I would carry in the woods around here. You would really piss a bear off big time with that.

Most Taurus revolvers are based on copies of the S&W action, and most Taurus semi-autos are copies of various Beretta actions.
Are they worth what you paid for them, most models - Yes.
Are they of the same quality as comparable models from Smith, Ruger or Colt - No
Taurus has made improvements in their quality over the years, but as they do the price different gets smaller.
 
N

NDTerminator

New member
Dry firing (without snap caps) transfer bar/floating firing pin revolvers such as Taurus' can causing the firing pin to bulge the frame face, and it will cause the cylinder to hang up by binding the cartridge rims against this bulge.

Dry firing w/o snap caps can also cause the firing pin to crystalize and break.

If you're going to dry fire, use snap caps...
 
P

Petre

New member
Are they of the same quality as comparable models from Smith, Ruger or Colt - No
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More and More reviews are starting to wholeheartedly disagree with this assumption.

It may have been true years ago , but IMO it's not true any longer.

I just recently bought a Model 608 8 shot Large frame Taurus. I can afford any gun I want. I originally looked at the S&W 627-5 "8 times" which was about $1000.

The DA trigger action made it unshootable and the lockup was mediocre at best. (Every one of the 8 chambers was a little loose)

The guy showed me the Taurus 608 seemed to be based on the same frame (N , I believe) The Taurus had nearly perfect DA pull , much better lockup , and was the slightly heavier gun (Which I happen to like) It was finished every bit as good (Perfect bead blasted SS finish) included factory ported barrel and was less than half the price.

No way I could justify the S&W.

I've already fired close to 500 rounds through the 608 ... the gun is fantastic and a joy to shoot.

This negative stereotype I constantly hear on Taurus is totally unfounded IMO. They're one of many good gun manufacturers with the best warranty in the business.
 
F

Fer

New member
I agree with Petre, my 851 looks just as good or better than the S&W bodyguard(talking about the SS finish). Regarding how tuff or how many rounds you can fire thru the revo I do not beleive it es limited to 5 or 10 rounds per month. I own one of the new Tauri, I do not know what happened in the past but in my book Taurus is at the same level as the older top manufacturers.
 
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Windjammer

New member
Code: 
More and More reviews are starting to wholeheartedly disagree with this assumption.

Huh, this was not an assumption, the same gun rags you are reading are the same ones that would not give Taurus a second look not many years ago. As I stated "Taurus has made improvements in their quality over the years, but as they do the price different gets smaller."

If your going to compare guns please use comparable ones. The Smith 627 is a hand tuned Performance Center gun in .45 ACP which is a non standard revolver caliber NIB appox. $1,100.00 ( Correction the 627 is the 357 mag version and the 625 is the .45 ACP version)

Taurus 608 is 6 1/2" or 8" stainless steel .357 mag. production revolver NIB appox. $380.00. Comparable Smith 686 6" stainless steel .357 mag. NIB appox $500.00

Code: 
This negative stereotype I constantly hear on Taurus is totally unfounded IMO
Yes, the negative stereotype is founded in their early quality issues. To repeat again Taurus has improved their quality in recent years.
 
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W

Windjammer

New member
Fer,
If your happy with your gun that's all that's important. I did not say that Taurus guns were junk, I did say I feel the small frame Smith and Rugers are higher quality than my model 85.

Also I did not say the model 85 is limited to 5-10 rounds per month , that is what I do compared to my GP100 that eats 300-500 rounds per month. If you want to shoot that many rounds in your gun, then go for it.
 
P

Petre

New member
And to add to your CORRECTION Windjammer ... The 627-5 "8 Times" that I tried was an 8 shooter to boot.

The only REAL difference to not make it a total apples to apples or comparable was the price.

Other than that ... if you closed your eyes and worked both , you'd have come to the same conclusion I did ... The Taurus was the better gun. Actually , not seeing it , you'd guess the Taurus was the more expensive gun too.

The 627 was almost unshootable DA. It's trigger action was totally unacceptable and ridiculous at the price it was at.

The Taurus also , though not hand tuned by Performance Center , IS Factory hand fitted trigger actions on all 608's and it showed. FAR better than the PC tuning which neeed to be sent back or needed work by a gunsmith to lighten it up.

So .... Sorry , but it was a legit and fair comparison. The Cheaper gun won it hands down.
 
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