How can I achieve low recoil, accuracy, lethal power for 75 yards?

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Jack O'Conner

New member
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I've been kicked enough around by my 12 gauge rifled slug gun. The recoil seems truly unpleasant to me. I recently discovered that muzzle-loaders are OK for the shotgun-only area I hunt. My USAF buddy and I get together to hunt in eastern Pennsylvania about 45 miles north of Philly urban sprawl.

I fired an Omega 50 cal. at the gun club. A member kindly let me try it. Recoil seemed about same as a 20 gauge. But each firearm is different in terms of stock design, weight, etc.

My question is related to recoil, safety, accurasy. Please recommend a rifle for me. My budget is $450. Local shop has a scoped Winchester 45 caliber for $275. Salesman said it's made by CVA. Is a medium powered load lethal at 75 yards? I read that CVA has been involved in lawsuits involving full power loads. Something about lack of proof-testing and Spanish steel but for all I know, this is ancient history and their problems were corrected.

My goal is to achieive reasonable balance between accurasy, lethal power, and minimal recoil. Perhaps a 50 caliber would suit me best but I have never owned a muzzle-loader and my research has been limited. My shots will not exceed 75 yards. The whitetails in this region are half the size of Dakota mule deer.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.
 
W

Wild Bill Bucks

New member
My preferences for ML's tend to be on the expensive side, but almost any of the inline ML's in 50 caliber, with an MMP sabot, and a hornady 250 grain bullet, in front of a 70 or 80 grain powder charge, will be easy on the shoulder and will give lethal performance on any size deer at 75 yards.
I own Savage MLII, and for my money they just can't be equaled by either of my Thompson Encores. I also own several Thompson Omegas that will shoot very accurately, but it is hard to take anything hunting but my Savage.
 
M

mykeal

New member
Lyman Great Plains Rifle or Thompson Center Hawken, .54 cal, .530 round ball patched with .018 pillow ticking lubed with Ballistol/water in 1/6 ratio, 70 gr ffg real black powder.
 
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simonkenton

New member
Get a Thompson Center Hawken in .50 and shoot patched round balls.
Use 80 grains of ffg black powder and there is not a whitetail on the continent that can withstand a lung shot at 75 yards.
He will leave a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could follow, but he won't go far.
Recoil with black powder is not too bad, it burns more slowly than smokeless and gives more of a shove than the hard kick of a modern gun.

I also have a Savage and it is a great muzzleloader. You could down-load the Savage and have a great 75 yard deer rifle with minimal recoil.
With my load I am cranking out more foot pounds than a 30-06, pretty stout recoil.
 
D

Doc Hoy

New member
Jack

You're in my old stompin grounds. Sounds like Boyertown or Reading?

So I am not completely highjacking the thread, let me add that... my Uncle (RIP) took deer out of that area with a flintlock 50 cal TC. He willed that rifle to my cousin who harvested a 210 pound buck this year about three miles south of Pottstown.

Both of those guys swear (or in the case of my uncle, swore) by it.

My uncle used round balls as Mykeal recommended but I am not sure about my cousin.
 
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zippy13

New member
As mentioned by the first responders, andrewstorm and Will Bill Bucks, the Savage 110 ML series has really upped the ante in muzzle-loaders. I suspect many will follow the Savage example in their future ML offerings. Unfortunately, for now, the Savage ML is beyond your stated budget.

Before you give up on your shotgun, and its back-up shots, for a front feed firearm, let's look at your initial complaint: recoil. You didn't mention what model shotgun you're using. What steps have you taken to reduce your slug gun's recoil? As an example, I'm assuming it's a typical contemporary pump action with a rifled barrel, cantilevered scope and a synthetic stock. For a fraction the price of a muzzle-loader (and the myriad accouterments) a shotgun's recoil can be reduced significantly.

The typical Savage 110 ML-II tips the scales at 7 3/4-pounds. That's about 8 to 12 ounces heavier than a Mossberg slug gun. Add a 12-ounce weight to the shotgun and you'll reduce the recoil significantly. To help reduce muzzle jump and felt recoil, Mossberg offers factory barrel porting for $35 -- if you're inclined towards porting, that's the deal of the century.

Does your shotgun fit you correctly? The vast majority of shooters have guns with unaltered factory stocks that they are "making do" with -- a poor stock fit can contribute to kick. While correcting fit, there are numerous stock modifications, from more efficient recoil pads to telescoping units, that will reduce felt recoil.
 
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Noz

New member
The most vicious "kick" I have ever gotten from a firearm was from an Ithaca Deer Slayer Slug gun. A good recoil pad solved most of the problem. A good "in stock" kick reducer would help even more. Both would be much cheaper than the $450.
 
J

Jack O'Conner

New member
Doc: My buddy and I hunt southeast of Allentown and north of Quakertown. The land is divided into 10 and 20 acre parcels. Seems mighty yuppy-ish to me but the deer are numerous and not so difficult to shoot from ladder stands. One year, the Pennsylvania Game Dept. offered un-limited doe licenses. No kidding!

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My 12 gauge is a Winchester pump. Recoil is quite severe compared to my favorite 30-30 carbine. I appreciate the porting advice and phoned Magna-port in Michigan and was quoted a reasonable price. But my focus is a black powder rifle and NOT a 54 caliber. YIKES! Turn the numbers around and its 45 which seems more attractive to me.

I found a few prospects on GunBroker. A TC White Mt carbine appears hardly used and I like the side hammer feature. Omega seems like an easy-to-maintain rifle and there are plenty for sale.

Any input on the Winchester (CVA) in-line 45 rifle? That $275. price is appealing. But I won't own an unsafe firearm.

Thanks to all for the shared wisdom.

Jack
 
F

FrontierGander

New member
Thats to much for the Winchester. No dangers in that rifle at all though.

Personally i'd either check out the CVA Accura - CVA Optima - CVA Wolf.

New Optima
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New Wolf right out of the box @ 50 yards with open sights
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CVA Accura with Truglo ghost ring rear sight and front Globe sight @ 100 yards. That shot on the far right is my fault :mad: Blew a beautiful 5 shot group.
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C

CajunPowder

Moderator
45 caliber muzzleloading rifle

I also like the idea of getting a 45 caliber black powder muzzleloader, then I could share the round balls between the Remmie, (the remmie I'll get in about a hunderd years), and the rifle.

From what I understand, the common and modern 45 caliber rifles out there are the same as the 50 caliber, (of that model), with a smaller barrel.

My question is, could one get better accuracy to POA and MOA pushing the smaller sabot or boolit FASTER, with the same amount of powder, thus less recoil and better accuracy.

Again, the only reason I entertain a 45 rifle is that only requires one mold and one type of bullet between the revolver and the rifle.

DOES that make sense? I know I'm missing many variables in the equation but my primary reasons for purchasing these pieces is because the gubment, IMHO, is in the business of hindering our access not only to firearms, but to ammunition as well and it will all only get worse, and maybe worse faster than any of U.S. might care to believe.

:(
 
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Hawg

New member
I also like the idea of getting a 45 caliber black powder muzzleloader, then I could share the round balls between the Remmie, (the remmie I'll get in about a hunderd years), and the rifle.
Click to expand...

No you can't. A rifle takes a .430-.435 ball. The Remington takes a .454.
 
F

FrontierGander

New member
a LOT more projectiles to choose from if you shoot a 50cal. 45 has no advantage at all. In fact its a big disadvantage in colorado where i live. Minimum caliber for elk is 50cal

A .45cal muzzleloader also normally takes .440 round balls. Inlines wernt made to shoot round balls.
 
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CajunPowder

Moderator
Revolver Carbine

Hawg:

Those revolver carbines are pretty neat, the real drawback to me is that I would not put my hand on the forestock area when shooting because ... well it's a revolver.

I'm really liking the afford ability and simplicity of the CVA Accura.
 
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