You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Hornady vs. Dillon press
- Thread starter Futo Inu
- Start date
Futo,
The Hornady is a truly excellent machine, and is competitive with the basic Dillon 550B.
It is definitely not, however, competitive with the larger, faster Dillon 650 and 1050.
The overwhelming majority of competitive shooters that I have known use Dillon reloaders. There's got to be a reason for that. Think about it.
The Hornady is a truly excellent machine, and is competitive with the basic Dillon 550B.
It is definitely not, however, competitive with the larger, faster Dillon 650 and 1050.
The overwhelming majority of competitive shooters that I have known use Dillon reloaders. There's got to be a reason for that. Think about it.
a
Actually, I think if we're talking about the Hornady LNL AP, it's more comparable to the 650 than the 550. It's a 5 station fully progressive press as opposed to the 550 which is a 4 and 'almost' progressive. The LNL AP lacks a case feeder, which is purportedly going to hit the market in Dec/Jan, if I'm to believe the Hornady technicians. One nagging problem they have among a small percentage of users is a primer feeding inconsistency, and that has hurt their internet forum presence, I think. I have no troubles, and crank out about 500 rounds an hour at a leisurely pace; can't wait for the case feeder.
I doubt very much if it will ever gain that much of the market. Dillon definitely has the market cornered, having sold most of the shooting public on the appeal of their modular system and it's caliber changing convenience. What most new reloaders don't realize initially is that the cost of this convenience is much more expensive--about $150 per caliber change (for true powder measure and die exchanges) as opposed to $30-50 for a caliber change with the Hornady. It's kind of like the old VHS vs. Beta wars, where VHS captured the market by virtue of its' inundating the public with advertisements, and undercutting the Betas with lower prices. Hornady is late to the market, and their lower prices fall on deaf ears. As sweet a product as it is, only those willing to do a LOT of research come to the conclusion that it's a better deal.
Actually, I think if we're talking about the Hornady LNL AP, it's more comparable to the 650 than the 550. It's a 5 station fully progressive press as opposed to the 550 which is a 4 and 'almost' progressive. The LNL AP lacks a case feeder, which is purportedly going to hit the market in Dec/Jan, if I'm to believe the Hornady technicians. One nagging problem they have among a small percentage of users is a primer feeding inconsistency, and that has hurt their internet forum presence, I think. I have no troubles, and crank out about 500 rounds an hour at a leisurely pace; can't wait for the case feeder.
I doubt very much if it will ever gain that much of the market. Dillon definitely has the market cornered, having sold most of the shooting public on the appeal of their modular system and it's caliber changing convenience. What most new reloaders don't realize initially is that the cost of this convenience is much more expensive--about $150 per caliber change (for true powder measure and die exchanges) as opposed to $30-50 for a caliber change with the Hornady. It's kind of like the old VHS vs. Beta wars, where VHS captured the market by virtue of its' inundating the public with advertisements, and undercutting the Betas with lower prices. Hornady is late to the market, and their lower prices fall on deaf ears. As sweet a product as it is, only those willing to do a LOT of research come to the conclusion that it's a better deal.
Some Hornady users really like their machines, but Dillon has something that Hornady doesn't, a machine with a case feeder and primer system that works. Once Hornady gets the L-N-L primer system sorted out, and a case feeder on the market, their market share might get Dillon's attention.
Guy B. Meredith
New member
Futo Inu
I belive Hornady offers the most value for the slot between the turret press or Dillon Square Deal and the Dillon 1050. This means the slot filled by the 550 and 650 in the Dillon line.
Dillons are popular, in part to their visibility. Both presses have their strong points and it becomes a Chevy/Ford thing. As uglymofo says...
The primer feed works well when kept clean with the exception of the minor quirk mentioned below. The following is pretty much my standard spiel when this question comes up.
________________________
I have a Hornady Lock-N-Load that I bought as my first press. I will agree that someone new to reloading will need to pay VERY close attention if a progressive is the first press, but I survived around 20,000 rounds combined .38 spl and .357 magnum now. One reason I did survive is that I installed an RCBS lockout die in position 4 to make sure I didn't turn out squibs or dump a double load. It has saved my not always totally intelligent a** a couple of times.
The Dillon equipment is nice, but I had the impression there were too many parts and the Hornady offered more for the money--650 functions at a 550 price. I will be one of the first in line for that case feeder mentioned above, though. The deciding factor was looking at all the pricey things that Dillon either tempts you with or requires and then one day walking through a local shop and finding the Hornady LNL on closeout for $250 complete.
The press I bought came with a 10 mm shell plate and the store wanted me to purchase the .38 plate I wanted for $26. Hornady gave me a straight across trade and I just paid shipping for the 10 mm plate. Later they found out I had an older model and sent me an upgrade I had not known about. This, too, came free.
The powder measure is case actuated so there is no spillage. The thing is so boringly accurate that I now weigh charges only on setup and maybe every couple of hundred rounds just for kicks. I normally knock out 100 rounds every 12 to 15 minutes despite all my extraneous fussing. That does not come to 400/hour as it is necessary to take a break to fill the primer tube. [And take a coffee break.] (Anyone tried that automatic primer tube loader I saw advertised at Midway?)
The LNL feature of being able to remove individual dies is pretty sharp. Several times I've wanted to compare different dies and this allowed me to change out the individual die during a run. Best example is that I wanted to check taper vs roll crimp at several powder levels/types. I set the powder measure for the first charge, ran 25 with taper, changed out the die and ran 25 with roll crimp, upped the powder charge and repeated, changed the powder and repeated for a total of 300 rounds. Once set, it is not necessry to readjust the individual dies being changed out. [I also routinely change out individual RCBS and Hornady dies for a variety of reasons.]
Again the press has 5 stations so you can either have individual seating and crimp dies or the RCBS lockout die and combination seat/crimp die. If you want all three it will be necessary to make a slight alteration to the powder drop to allow flaring at the same station as the powder drop. I have the info on that, but have never been able to justify the individual dies so have not personally tested it. [That will change soon.]
There are three negative items on the LNL that I am aware of:
The first is that the last primer never wants to come out on the first stroke. Hornady needs to provide a follower in the primer tube to cure that. You can make one yourself with a very small diameter wooden dowel--just make sure that there is a clip on the follower to prevent it from dropping into the primer shuttle after the last primer has been delivered.
Another is that you will need to put a drop of locktite on the threads of the primer punch.
The last is that you must use Hornady dies on station 5 to provide clearance for the spring that dumps the loaded round. At least one person has modified an RCBS die for the clearance, but I prefer the Hornady dies and the few times I now use RCBS dies I just remove the complete rounds by hand.
Like someone else said, the whole thing becomes a Ford vs Chevy thing. You pays your money and takes your choice. Do take a close look at the complete cost of both the Hornady and the 550 if you are working under the assumption they are in the same price range. The Dillon extras take the price up a bit. Again you may feel the extas are worth while.
Enjoy.
Guy B. Meredith
I belive Hornady offers the most value for the slot between the turret press or Dillon Square Deal and the Dillon 1050. This means the slot filled by the 550 and 650 in the Dillon line.
Dillons are popular, in part to their visibility. Both presses have their strong points and it becomes a Chevy/Ford thing. As uglymofo says...
The primer feed works well when kept clean with the exception of the minor quirk mentioned below. The following is pretty much my standard spiel when this question comes up.
________________________
I have a Hornady Lock-N-Load that I bought as my first press. I will agree that someone new to reloading will need to pay VERY close attention if a progressive is the first press, but I survived around 20,000 rounds combined .38 spl and .357 magnum now. One reason I did survive is that I installed an RCBS lockout die in position 4 to make sure I didn't turn out squibs or dump a double load. It has saved my not always totally intelligent a** a couple of times.
The Dillon equipment is nice, but I had the impression there were too many parts and the Hornady offered more for the money--650 functions at a 550 price. I will be one of the first in line for that case feeder mentioned above, though. The deciding factor was looking at all the pricey things that Dillon either tempts you with or requires and then one day walking through a local shop and finding the Hornady LNL on closeout for $250 complete.
The press I bought came with a 10 mm shell plate and the store wanted me to purchase the .38 plate I wanted for $26. Hornady gave me a straight across trade and I just paid shipping for the 10 mm plate. Later they found out I had an older model and sent me an upgrade I had not known about. This, too, came free.
The powder measure is case actuated so there is no spillage. The thing is so boringly accurate that I now weigh charges only on setup and maybe every couple of hundred rounds just for kicks. I normally knock out 100 rounds every 12 to 15 minutes despite all my extraneous fussing. That does not come to 400/hour as it is necessary to take a break to fill the primer tube. [And take a coffee break.] (Anyone tried that automatic primer tube loader I saw advertised at Midway?)
The LNL feature of being able to remove individual dies is pretty sharp. Several times I've wanted to compare different dies and this allowed me to change out the individual die during a run. Best example is that I wanted to check taper vs roll crimp at several powder levels/types. I set the powder measure for the first charge, ran 25 with taper, changed out the die and ran 25 with roll crimp, upped the powder charge and repeated, changed the powder and repeated for a total of 300 rounds. Once set, it is not necessry to readjust the individual dies being changed out. [I also routinely change out individual RCBS and Hornady dies for a variety of reasons.]
Again the press has 5 stations so you can either have individual seating and crimp dies or the RCBS lockout die and combination seat/crimp die. If you want all three it will be necessary to make a slight alteration to the powder drop to allow flaring at the same station as the powder drop. I have the info on that, but have never been able to justify the individual dies so have not personally tested it. [That will change soon.]
There are three negative items on the LNL that I am aware of:
The first is that the last primer never wants to come out on the first stroke. Hornady needs to provide a follower in the primer tube to cure that. You can make one yourself with a very small diameter wooden dowel--just make sure that there is a clip on the follower to prevent it from dropping into the primer shuttle after the last primer has been delivered.
Another is that you will need to put a drop of locktite on the threads of the primer punch.
The last is that you must use Hornady dies on station 5 to provide clearance for the spring that dumps the loaded round. At least one person has modified an RCBS die for the clearance, but I prefer the Hornady dies and the few times I now use RCBS dies I just remove the complete rounds by hand.
Like someone else said, the whole thing becomes a Ford vs Chevy thing. You pays your money and takes your choice. Do take a close look at the complete cost of both the Hornady and the 550 if you are working under the assumption they are in the same price range. The Dillon extras take the price up a bit. Again you may feel the extas are worth while.
Enjoy.
Guy B. Meredith
argh... mo' money....
Hi Guy,
You're my guru.. to what are you referring, with this question:
"Anyone tried that automatic primer tube loader I saw advertised at Midway?"
I didn't see anything at the Hornady site, but it's rather kludgy.
Thanks,
mofo
ps. remember all those problems I had with the primer feed? This was the solution, permanent, and 7000 rounds ago:
About 2-3 months ago I was talking to a Hornady technician and just off the top of his head, out of frustration (he told me later), he asked, " Are you using milsurp brass?"
I said,"yes".
"Are you removing the primer pocket crimp?"
My answer was, "yes".
"Have you checked to see that it's deep enough?"
I thought, and said, "why wouldn't it be, it worked for my .308 cases AND my .45ACP on the Dillon?"
It turns out that the Dillon 450 I have has about 20% more leverage and a taller primer punch to seat the primers. I could literally 'muscle' the primers in, and didn't feel it as any additional work, like I did with the Hornady. I reswaged the milsurp .45ACP brass so the crimp was removed a little better, and I haven't had a primer feed problem in the last approximate 7000 reloads. Oddly, the .308 cases feed fine in the LNL; I guess the dimensions at the primer pocket aren't identical, I just took that for granted since the shellplate's the same.
Looking back on this, my primer feed problems happened randomly, and only in 45ACP. It never occurred to me to try another caliber like 44Mag or any commercial load. 45ACP was the only load I was short of at the time.
I'll bet the feed failures were because I had commercial cases mixed equally with the poorly-swaged milsurp stuff. It never occurred to me to check the headstamps, only the primer feed system.
Hi Guy,
You're my guru.. to what are you referring, with this question:
"Anyone tried that automatic primer tube loader I saw advertised at Midway?"
I didn't see anything at the Hornady site, but it's rather kludgy.
Thanks,
mofo
ps. remember all those problems I had with the primer feed? This was the solution, permanent, and 7000 rounds ago:
About 2-3 months ago I was talking to a Hornady technician and just off the top of his head, out of frustration (he told me later), he asked, " Are you using milsurp brass?"
I said,"yes".
"Are you removing the primer pocket crimp?"
My answer was, "yes".
"Have you checked to see that it's deep enough?"
I thought, and said, "why wouldn't it be, it worked for my .308 cases AND my .45ACP on the Dillon?"
It turns out that the Dillon 450 I have has about 20% more leverage and a taller primer punch to seat the primers. I could literally 'muscle' the primers in, and didn't feel it as any additional work, like I did with the Hornady. I reswaged the milsurp .45ACP brass so the crimp was removed a little better, and I haven't had a primer feed problem in the last approximate 7000 reloads. Oddly, the .308 cases feed fine in the LNL; I guess the dimensions at the primer pocket aren't identical, I just took that for granted since the shellplate's the same.
Looking back on this, my primer feed problems happened randomly, and only in 45ACP. It never occurred to me to try another caliber like 44Mag or any commercial load. 45ACP was the only load I was short of at the time.
I'll bet the feed failures were because I had commercial cases mixed equally with the poorly-swaged milsurp stuff. It never occurred to me to check the headstamps, only the primer feed system.
I recently purchased a Hornady Lnl AP. I also looked at Dillon, but as I will be loading several calibers of pistol and rifle felt the Hornady was a better value.
If I was loading a single caliber as alot of competition shooters do, I probably would have gone with the Dillon.
I use Lee and Redding crimp dies in station #5 and have no problems.
The Hornady primer system WORKS and works well for me.
The powder drop on the AP is as another poster said, very reliable. I check the charge when I begin loading, and every 100 or so rounds there after.
I also like the Hornady die mounting system. Seems like having individual dies on a cast head would provide for decreased flex as opposed to all dies on a removable plate.
I don't feel that I need a powder cop as the charged case is right in front of me for bullet insertion. With sufficient light a short or long throw is quite obvious..
I don't think the Midway primer tube filler would work with the LnL as it requires pressure to insert the prime. Think the Midway tool is basically a vibrator that vibrates the primer toward the tube ? Someone please correct me if I am wrong here.
If I was loading a single caliber as alot of competition shooters do, I probably would have gone with the Dillon.
I use Lee and Redding crimp dies in station #5 and have no problems.
The Hornady primer system WORKS and works well for me.
The powder drop on the AP is as another poster said, very reliable. I check the charge when I begin loading, and every 100 or so rounds there after.
I also like the Hornady die mounting system. Seems like having individual dies on a cast head would provide for decreased flex as opposed to all dies on a removable plate.
I don't feel that I need a powder cop as the charged case is right in front of me for bullet insertion. With sufficient light a short or long throw is quite obvious..
I don't think the Midway primer tube filler would work with the LnL as it requires pressure to insert the prime. Think the Midway tool is basically a vibrator that vibrates the primer toward the tube ? Someone please correct me if I am wrong here.
Guy B. Meredith
New member
uglymofo,
Midway had a vibrating primer loading mechanism that supposedly can be adapted to most of the feed systems. No more poke to pick them up. The vibration might also eliminate the reluctant number 100.
That and a case feeder could be close to Nirvana.
Midway had a vibrating primer loading mechanism that supposedly can be adapted to most of the feed systems. No more poke to pick them up. The vibration might also eliminate the reluctant number 100.
That and a case feeder could be close to Nirvana.
Guy,
Is this what you mean?
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/applications/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=656090
I wonder if a remote trigger could be rigged so it doesn't have to be hand held...looks easy enough to accomplish.
Is this what you mean?
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/applications/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=656090
I wonder if a remote trigger could be rigged so it doesn't have to be hand held...looks easy enough to accomplish.
Guy B. Meredith
New member
uglymofo,
Yeah, but I had neglected to remember that it is hand held.
Would like to see how it functions. Are the primers being dropped down the tube, do they have a tendency to stick or flip on the way down?
Guy
Yeah, but I had neglected to remember that it is hand held.
Would like to see how it functions. Are the primers being dropped down the tube, do they have a tendency to stick or flip on the way down?
Guy