One of my ARs really shoot the Hornady .223 75 grain match bthp ammo well. While on their website it doesn't say that it does well at anything other that target shooting. I haven't found much other info that really answers my questions. Would it be effective on deer sized animals? How about self defense? Any info would be appreciated
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Hornady "Match" bthp uses?
- Thread starter Django11
- Start date
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Here is an exhaustive encyclopedia of all the Hornady 75gr variants and how they differ:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Hornady_75_gr__HP_Match_vs__75_gr__TAP/16-387471/
Short version: Most of them kill a lot more than paper well; but they are limited by being yaw dependent, so they tend to be less effective through intermediate barriers.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Hornady_75_gr__HP_Match_vs__75_gr__TAP/16-387471/
Short version: Most of them kill a lot more than paper well; but they are limited by being yaw dependent, so they tend to be less effective through intermediate barriers.
While they are marketed as target bullets they would probably work just fine for hunting. or personal defense. I've noted the same excellent accuracy. In fact the Hornady Steel match ammo only runs $25/50 rounds and uses the same bullet. I get the same accuracy for less money.
But until I see some test results, or conduct my own, I'll not hunt with them. What I have learned over the years is that almost all of the "match" bullets perform just as well on game as "hunting" bullets. In many cases better. The exception is FMJ. Most all of them with a plastic tip such as the Hornady ELD-Match bullets or the open tip design that Berger and Scenar use have proven to work very well.
Later this summer I plan to put together some type of test to catch some of them and see how well they expand. If they do as well as I think they will then I'll use them to hunt with.
But until I see some test results, or conduct my own, I'll not hunt with them. What I have learned over the years is that almost all of the "match" bullets perform just as well on game as "hunting" bullets. In many cases better. The exception is FMJ. Most all of them with a plastic tip such as the Hornady ELD-Match bullets or the open tip design that Berger and Scenar use have proven to work very well.
Later this summer I plan to put together some type of test to catch some of them and see how well they expand. If they do as well as I think they will then I'll use them to hunt with.
If people would only get this: Match bullets punch paper well, but DON'T use them on animals!!! It doesn't matter whether the bullet strikes an animal within an inch of where you intended if...it can't control expansion well and kill humanely!!!
One lucky hit does not a make a hunting bullet out of a target bullet! Any bullet will kill in certain placements, but hunting bullets are designed to kill quickly at various angles and whether they strike bone, etc.
One lucky hit does not a make a hunting bullet out of a target bullet! Any bullet will kill in certain placements, but hunting bullets are designed to kill quickly at various angles and whether they strike bone, etc.
Any facts of experience to post?
The issue with targetbullets is that they contain soft lead inside weak jackets with minimal bonding of jacket to lead. They fall apart when they expand.
To test this specific bullet, line up like 6 milk jugs of water and see what the stopped bullet looks like. Also, what does it weigh.
For example, Berger match bullets in heavy 30 cal are known to be good long range hunting bullets.
The issue with targetbullets is that they contain soft lead inside weak jackets with minimal bonding of jacket to lead. They fall apart when they expand.
To test this specific bullet, line up like 6 milk jugs of water and see what the stopped bullet looks like. Also, what does it weigh.
For example, Berger match bullets in heavy 30 cal are known to be good long range hunting bullets.
"Any facts of experience to post?"
.308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition bullets loaded to around 2750+/-
Deer quartering to @ 150 yards hit inside shoulder looked like it encountered a chainsaw.
Deer broadside @ 150 yards hit broadside in ribcage not recovered no blood trail.
Bobcat broadside @250 yards hit through shoulders DRT but barely visible exit hole.
Coyotes(3) @ 350 yards hit somewhere unrecovered no blood trail.
The clue here is the extremely inconsistent bullet action. I believe the "chainsawed" deer was the result of a tumbling bullet while the other failures were the result of the bullet boring a hole. The bobcat was hit close to the spine and that's what dropped it on the spot. The other animals simply ran off to die at their convenience.
I tried 69 grain HPBT out of a 20" AR on baited coyotes @ 325 yards but failed to recover any of those hit so switched to the 308 w/o improving results.
.308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition bullets loaded to around 2750+/-
Deer quartering to @ 150 yards hit inside shoulder looked like it encountered a chainsaw.
Deer broadside @ 150 yards hit broadside in ribcage not recovered no blood trail.
Bobcat broadside @250 yards hit through shoulders DRT but barely visible exit hole.
Coyotes(3) @ 350 yards hit somewhere unrecovered no blood trail.
The clue here is the extremely inconsistent bullet action. I believe the "chainsawed" deer was the result of a tumbling bullet while the other failures were the result of the bullet boring a hole. The bobcat was hit close to the spine and that's what dropped it on the spot. The other animals simply ran off to die at their convenience.
I tried 69 grain HPBT out of a 20" AR on baited coyotes @ 325 yards but failed to recover any of those hit so switched to the 308 w/o improving results.
reynolds357
New member
Target bullets either under expand or over expand. With one exception, I don't hunt with target bullets. The one exception being 168 Sierra Match Kings in my 300 Win Mag retired sniper rifle used on Whitetails. They perform very similar to Berger Match Grade hunting.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I disremember the brand names, but there are at least a couple of .223 bullets around 68 grains that are designed as appropriate for deer. Members have posted numerous positive comments.
Go to a bulllet-maker's website and browse for a chart of their bullets. They often show suggested uses.
Go to a bulllet-maker's website and browse for a chart of their bullets. They often show suggested uses.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Don Fischer
New member
Most bullet's will kill no matter what the weight or construction. That doesn't mean they were designed to kill. Take Nosler. The partition has a cult following. What is the need for the bonded bullet? In fact what is the need for two different bonded bullet's? That cup and core was a good idea but I have no idea how well it really works. Has a place. I think they are about half the cost of the partition's and bonded bullet's.The only company I know of that has not got caught up in this bullet race is Speer! They don't make a monolithic bullet or a bonded bullet. But then I have used Speer Hot Core's and I found the core and jacket don't separate! But don't call them a bonded bullet, shoot, they don't cost enough.
OP say's Hornady doesn't tell you what the 75gr HPBT 223 bullet does other than target shoot. Has it occurred that the bullet is designed for just one thing Paper shooting! Lot of people want to take a bullet like that and proove that company's like Hornady don't have a clue what they are doing but, they still buy the bullet's. Pay careful attention now, the 75gr HPBT is designed to be a match bullet, one more time, a match bullet!
OP say's Hornady doesn't tell you what the 75gr HPBT 223 bullet does other than target shoot. Has it occurred that the bullet is designed for just one thing Paper shooting! Lot of people want to take a bullet like that and proove that company's like Hornady don't have a clue what they are doing but, they still buy the bullet's. Pay careful attention now, the 75gr HPBT is designed to be a match bullet, one more time, a match bullet!
I disremember the brand names, but there are at least a couple of .223 bullets around 68 grains that are designed as appropriate for deer.
Barnes makes the monolithic Triple Shock bullets in weights to 70 grains. i've killed numerous large hogs with the 53 and 62 grain TSX bullets; they work very well.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2017/07/223RemingtonWeb.pdf
Thanks Mobuck, that is a great accounting of actual experience.
Don, Speer is in there....Grand Slam! Both are fine bullets with a design for expansion.
I should include my account....Berger 190gr match from 300WSM at 3000fps. Hit an antelope at 220 yds in the spine. Dropped like a rock, huge hole where spine exploded. I didn't include as this tells me little about the bullets performance.
Don, Speer is in there....Grand Slam! Both are fine bullets with a design for expansion.
I should include my account....Berger 190gr match from 300WSM at 3000fps. Hit an antelope at 220 yds in the spine. Dropped like a rock, huge hole where spine exploded. I didn't include as this tells me little about the bullets performance.
"...effective on deer sized animals..." Absolutely not. Match bullets are not made to expand. They're for making neat round holes in paper. They do well for varmints where expansion and penetration aren't required though.
"...cannelured bullet for reliability..." A cannelure have nothing to do with reliability. They're for crimping and nothing else.
"....308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition..." Isn't a 75 grain .223. Apples and oranges comparison.
"...cannelured bullet for reliability..." A cannelure have nothing to do with reliability. They're for crimping and nothing else.
"....308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition..." Isn't a 75 grain .223. Apples and oranges comparison.
The only instance in which I've had "match bullets" perform on meat is when using Hornady 53 grain flat base match bullets. I killed a pickup load(no joking) of coyotes at ranges up to 1/4 mile using this bullet pushed at max(and maybe a bit more) from a 22/250. I don't know if the bullets expanded, blew up, tumbled, or went nuclear but best guess is disintegrated on contact.