Hornady Lock-N-Load - your thoughts?
- Thread starter Huskerguy
- Start date
David Wile
New member
Hey Husker,
You are asking about the Hornady LNL AP, and you also mention that you are looking to replace your old Pacific. I assume you know Hornady bought Pacific out, and it is pretty safe to say that Hornady has continued in the footsteps of Pacific as far as the quality and massive size and strength of their machines. Hornady still makes the same 366 shotshell press initiated by Pacific, and the 366 is pretty much one of the several presses that evolved by Pacific starting with their 300 series presses.
On the metallic side of the fence in the early 1990s, Hornady was selling their Projector progressive press which I thought was a very good machine, but the Dillon folks had their 650 which offered a quick change die head system that appealed to so many folks. I think Hornady came up with the LNL press primarily to compete with the perceived advantage of the Dillon tool head quick change feature. Hornady made a few other improvements to their old Projector and added the slick idea of changing dies simply with a bushing system, and they came out with their Lock N Load Auto Progressive press in 1997.
I had a few friends with Dillon presses, and I had one friend with the Hornady Projector. I used them all for more than a year to learn how each of them worked. The only Dillon I really liked was the 650, but I really had no interest in the quick change tool head feature. I really preferred the Hornady Projector and was about to buy one when a Hornady salesman said they would be selling the newer LNL AP in just a few weeks. I wasn't interested in the LNL feature of the press, but I knew I wanted one of the new replacements for the old Projector, and I ordered one immediately. I got one of the first LNL APs distributed in 1997, and the serial number on my machine is 1,525. I started a thread on LNL serial numbers, and out of 39 responses, mine was the oldest LNL reported.
My LNL is still in its original configuration with no upgrades and no parts replacement other than one shell plate spring, and that is since 1997. I spent the time to learn how to use it properly, and it works perfectly in its original condition. There have been some changes made to the machine since 1997 such as the cartridge ejection system, the primer system, and they now have a new lower shell plate holder that allows an auto case feeder to be added to the machine. I also understand you can get an auto bullet feeder for it. I never saw the bullet feeder, but one of my friends has a case feeder that I have observed, and you could not give me one if it was free. The noise alone is enough to drive me crazy, and I prefer to put my cases and bullets in place by hand. I also do not think my friends auto case feeder adds much if anything to total throughput of finished product, and I think it takes away an important part of the reloading process to me.
Then there is the matter of the quick change features of the 650 and the LNL. For myself, I would rather simply screw in all the dies the old fashioned way. However, for those who simply have to have a faster method of changing die set ups, I think the LNL system is simpler, cheaper, and there are some folks who insist the LNL produces less run out than the 650 tool head.
Which is better between the 650 and the LNL? I don't know how you can answer that question. I prefer the LNL, but I certainly could load just as well for my purposes with a 650. I don't know what the current prices are, but the LNL has always been less expensive than the 650. A lot of folks compare the LNL with the Dillon 550 because they are generally close in price. However, you are not comparing apples to apples with the LNL and the 550. They are not close to being the same machine. The only press that compares with the LNL feature wise is the 650.
For some time now, Hornady was offering free bullets with the purchase of the LNL. I would tell anybody who will listen to not buy any press because of a free bullet offer. I tell folks to try them both to get a feel for which one you like the best for your tastes. If you happen to like the one with the free bullets, then they are just icing on the cake.
If you search past threads on these progressive machines, you will find many, many folks who have had nothing but trouble operating their machines - both Dillon and Hornady owners. I would suggest that most of the problems encountered by these folks rest with their own abilities to operate such a machine. A lot of folks are used to a single stage machine and expect a new progressive is going to run itself without any hitches. That is just plain wooden headed thinking. These progressive machines are truly complex in that they are performing all the different functions of reloading a cartridge in one cycle of the handle. One really needs to be ready to learn how the machine works and become one with the machine operation.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
You are asking about the Hornady LNL AP, and you also mention that you are looking to replace your old Pacific. I assume you know Hornady bought Pacific out, and it is pretty safe to say that Hornady has continued in the footsteps of Pacific as far as the quality and massive size and strength of their machines. Hornady still makes the same 366 shotshell press initiated by Pacific, and the 366 is pretty much one of the several presses that evolved by Pacific starting with their 300 series presses.
On the metallic side of the fence in the early 1990s, Hornady was selling their Projector progressive press which I thought was a very good machine, but the Dillon folks had their 650 which offered a quick change die head system that appealed to so many folks. I think Hornady came up with the LNL press primarily to compete with the perceived advantage of the Dillon tool head quick change feature. Hornady made a few other improvements to their old Projector and added the slick idea of changing dies simply with a bushing system, and they came out with their Lock N Load Auto Progressive press in 1997.
I had a few friends with Dillon presses, and I had one friend with the Hornady Projector. I used them all for more than a year to learn how each of them worked. The only Dillon I really liked was the 650, but I really had no interest in the quick change tool head feature. I really preferred the Hornady Projector and was about to buy one when a Hornady salesman said they would be selling the newer LNL AP in just a few weeks. I wasn't interested in the LNL feature of the press, but I knew I wanted one of the new replacements for the old Projector, and I ordered one immediately. I got one of the first LNL APs distributed in 1997, and the serial number on my machine is 1,525. I started a thread on LNL serial numbers, and out of 39 responses, mine was the oldest LNL reported.
My LNL is still in its original configuration with no upgrades and no parts replacement other than one shell plate spring, and that is since 1997. I spent the time to learn how to use it properly, and it works perfectly in its original condition. There have been some changes made to the machine since 1997 such as the cartridge ejection system, the primer system, and they now have a new lower shell plate holder that allows an auto case feeder to be added to the machine. I also understand you can get an auto bullet feeder for it. I never saw the bullet feeder, but one of my friends has a case feeder that I have observed, and you could not give me one if it was free. The noise alone is enough to drive me crazy, and I prefer to put my cases and bullets in place by hand. I also do not think my friends auto case feeder adds much if anything to total throughput of finished product, and I think it takes away an important part of the reloading process to me.
Then there is the matter of the quick change features of the 650 and the LNL. For myself, I would rather simply screw in all the dies the old fashioned way. However, for those who simply have to have a faster method of changing die set ups, I think the LNL system is simpler, cheaper, and there are some folks who insist the LNL produces less run out than the 650 tool head.
Which is better between the 650 and the LNL? I don't know how you can answer that question. I prefer the LNL, but I certainly could load just as well for my purposes with a 650. I don't know what the current prices are, but the LNL has always been less expensive than the 650. A lot of folks compare the LNL with the Dillon 550 because they are generally close in price. However, you are not comparing apples to apples with the LNL and the 550. They are not close to being the same machine. The only press that compares with the LNL feature wise is the 650.
For some time now, Hornady was offering free bullets with the purchase of the LNL. I would tell anybody who will listen to not buy any press because of a free bullet offer. I tell folks to try them both to get a feel for which one you like the best for your tastes. If you happen to like the one with the free bullets, then they are just icing on the cake.
If you search past threads on these progressive machines, you will find many, many folks who have had nothing but trouble operating their machines - both Dillon and Hornady owners. I would suggest that most of the problems encountered by these folks rest with their own abilities to operate such a machine. A lot of folks are used to a single stage machine and expect a new progressive is going to run itself without any hitches. That is just plain wooden headed thinking. These progressive machines are truly complex in that they are performing all the different functions of reloading a cartridge in one cycle of the handle. One really needs to be ready to learn how the machine works and become one with the machine operation.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
mongoose33
New member
I have a Hornady LnL AP press. I like it a lot. It has performed admirably for me.
When I was in the market for a progressive about 18 months ago, I only looked at two seriously: the Hornady, and the Dillon 550B. The other offerings were either too limited in their apparent user base (e.g., RCBS), or were, in my view, lesser quality (Lee).
I concluded that both would have made me happy. What swung the decision in the favor of the Hornady was two things: Auto-index, and price.
The 550B requires you to turn the shellplate by hand each time; not so the Hornady. And the 5 stations of the Hornady allow a bit more flexibility w/r/t a separate crimp die or a lockout die.
The other thing Hornady did was offer free bullets along w/ the press. Currently, if you buy the LnLAP you receive 500 free bullets which makes them worth about $100. The net cost to me was significantly less.
The Hornady dies are also eligible for the Get Loaded offer, with 100 bullets free instead of 500.
Changeover of the Hornady is quick with the bushing system. It takes me just a couple minutes to change from small to large primers or back again.
There are lots and lots of satisfied LnLAP users; that can't be an accident. But by the same token, so too are there lots and lots of satisfied Dillon users, and that is no accident either.
It comes down to what's important to you. You won't go wrong with either.
When I was in the market for a progressive about 18 months ago, I only looked at two seriously: the Hornady, and the Dillon 550B. The other offerings were either too limited in their apparent user base (e.g., RCBS), or were, in my view, lesser quality (Lee).
I concluded that both would have made me happy. What swung the decision in the favor of the Hornady was two things: Auto-index, and price.
The 550B requires you to turn the shellplate by hand each time; not so the Hornady. And the 5 stations of the Hornady allow a bit more flexibility w/r/t a separate crimp die or a lockout die.
The other thing Hornady did was offer free bullets along w/ the press. Currently, if you buy the LnLAP you receive 500 free bullets which makes them worth about $100. The net cost to me was significantly less.
The Hornady dies are also eligible for the Get Loaded offer, with 100 bullets free instead of 500.
Changeover of the Hornady is quick with the bushing system. It takes me just a couple minutes to change from small to large primers or back again.
There are lots and lots of satisfied LnLAP users; that can't be an accident. But by the same token, so too are there lots and lots of satisfied Dillon users, and that is no accident either.
It comes down to what's important to you. You won't go wrong with either.
A New Guys Perspective FWIW.
As a reloading noob interested in a high end progressive I spent a great deal of time ( a month ) researching both the Hornady LNL and the Dillon 650. No one in my area has either so I was limited to on-line and print sources, plus a few phone calls, not the best way for lots of reasons.
The obvious difference is price. The core LNL system, with one set of dies, factoring in their free bullet offers is much less then 1/2 the price of the same core 650 with one die set. The 650 with several die sets and " nice to have features" is very, very expensive by any measure.
However, cost isn`t everything in a precision tool that must give frustration free, safe, and constant results over many hours and tens of thousands of rounds.
In a progressive, subjective things like ease of use and design features aside, the key area of recurring problems seem to be the Powder Measure drop systems and the Primer Feed system. Frustration and stops and starts with those leave some people wondering why they didn`t get a single stage press for starts.... maybe that`s why the Redding T7 keeps selling
So.....leaving after purchase support aside....which company has the better, more reliable, more constantly accurate powder drop and primer system. This is, it seems, the only area that IMHO can justify the high price of the Dillon 650 VS the LNL AP.
Sadly, not trusting Professional Reviewers and lotsa internet chatter, I could never come up with an sure answer that didn`t evolve me buying both machines, and running them side by side for a month, and even then errant QC from the companies may interfere with the test results.
Sorry to say I don`t have the sure answer, but I do have a good guess.
As a reloading noob interested in a high end progressive I spent a great deal of time ( a month ) researching both the Hornady LNL and the Dillon 650. No one in my area has either so I was limited to on-line and print sources, plus a few phone calls, not the best way for lots of reasons.
The obvious difference is price. The core LNL system, with one set of dies, factoring in their free bullet offers is much less then 1/2 the price of the same core 650 with one die set. The 650 with several die sets and " nice to have features" is very, very expensive by any measure.
However, cost isn`t everything in a precision tool that must give frustration free, safe, and constant results over many hours and tens of thousands of rounds.
In a progressive, subjective things like ease of use and design features aside, the key area of recurring problems seem to be the Powder Measure drop systems and the Primer Feed system. Frustration and stops and starts with those leave some people wondering why they didn`t get a single stage press for starts.... maybe that`s why the Redding T7 keeps selling
So.....leaving after purchase support aside....which company has the better, more reliable, more constantly accurate powder drop and primer system. This is, it seems, the only area that IMHO can justify the high price of the Dillon 650 VS the LNL AP.
Sadly, not trusting Professional Reviewers and lotsa internet chatter, I could never come up with an sure answer that didn`t evolve me buying both machines, and running them side by side for a month, and even then errant QC from the companies may interfere with the test results.
Sorry to say I don`t have the sure answer, but I do have a good guess.
LnL
Wow, thanks for taking the time to respond everyone. I did know that Hornady bought out Pacific. I got started reloading several years ago while living in Grand Island, NE, the home of Hornady. I got hooked up with a guy who worked there and ended up with lots of Hornady equipment. I like to inspect each round as I load it, kind of particular that way and time has never been a concern. I reload for fun, satisfaction and for something to stimulate my mechanical mind because now I sit at a desk too much.
Again, thanks for your comments and help. This place is simply the best.
Wow, thanks for taking the time to respond everyone. I did know that Hornady bought out Pacific. I got started reloading several years ago while living in Grand Island, NE, the home of Hornady. I got hooked up with a guy who worked there and ended up with lots of Hornady equipment. I like to inspect each round as I load it, kind of particular that way and time has never been a concern. I reload for fun, satisfaction and for something to stimulate my mechanical mind because now I sit at a desk too much.
Again, thanks for your comments and help. This place is simply the best.
David Wile
New member
Hey folks,
Black Dog's post brings up one of the points I had tried to make earlier about progressive presses. Talking about progressive presses in general, Blackdog states that a progressive press is a precision tool, "...that must give frustration free, safe, and constant results over many hours and tens of thousands of rounds." I agree with Blackdog that it is a precision tool, but it should be pointed out that the best precision tools will not perform precision work unless the operator is capable of using the precision tool properly. That is why so many folks complain about different things on the Dillon 650 and the Hornady LNL - most of the complaining operators have never learned how to operate their precision tools with precision. Even with single stage presses there are folks who make mistakes in their operation. When you switch from a single stage machine to a progressive machine, you simply cannot expect the machine to do your thinking for you.
Black Dog mentions problems with the primer feed systems and the powder measure systems, and I think he is talking about the 650 and the LNL. I think Black Dog is correct that most complaints about these machines relate to primer feed and powder drop problems, but again I submit that most of the complaints are from users who simply are not properly prepared to use the "precision tool" as Black Dog refers to the 650 and the LNL.
Like I said in my earlier post, my LNL still has the original primer feed system and the original case activated powder drop/measure system, and they both work perfectly for me. Can they cause problems if you have foreign material in the primer track or if you assemble the powder drop with the plug upside down? Absolutely, but that does not denote a problem with the machine. It shows a problem with the operator. I have used both machines and prefer the primer feed and powder dispenser systems on the LNL, but I guarantee you that I can go over to my neighbor's 650 and within a half hour or so be loading on it just as well as I am able to load with my LNL machine.
Black Dog also makes another very good point about user frustration with so many stops and starts on progressive machines which "... leave some people wondering why they didn`t get a single stage press for starts..." I constantly tell folks to forget about a progressive machine until they have learned to properly use a single stage machine. I spent over 35 years loading with single stage machines before I bought my LNL. Even though I have been using my LNL since 1997, I still have a couple of single stage presses that I still use for special jobs (usually small jobs) that are not worth bothering with a progressive machine.
I think Black Dog then seems to suggest that the 650 has "...the better, more reliable, more constantly accurate powder drop and primer system." If that is what Black Dog is suggesting, I am afraid I have to disagree with him there. Like I said earlier, I personally prefer the primer feed and powder drop systems of the LNL, but I would not suggest that either is better than the other. Again, I point out that all the systems on a progressive press are no better than the press's weakest link, and the weakest link on a problem press is usually the operator. And so many of the folks with problems on the 650 and the LNL turn out to be folks who are new to reloading and jump right in by buying a very complex progressive machine rather than starting with a single stage machine.
Everyone should have a single stage machine, whether they have a progressive machine or not.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
Black Dog's post brings up one of the points I had tried to make earlier about progressive presses. Talking about progressive presses in general, Blackdog states that a progressive press is a precision tool, "...that must give frustration free, safe, and constant results over many hours and tens of thousands of rounds." I agree with Blackdog that it is a precision tool, but it should be pointed out that the best precision tools will not perform precision work unless the operator is capable of using the precision tool properly. That is why so many folks complain about different things on the Dillon 650 and the Hornady LNL - most of the complaining operators have never learned how to operate their precision tools with precision. Even with single stage presses there are folks who make mistakes in their operation. When you switch from a single stage machine to a progressive machine, you simply cannot expect the machine to do your thinking for you.
Black Dog mentions problems with the primer feed systems and the powder measure systems, and I think he is talking about the 650 and the LNL. I think Black Dog is correct that most complaints about these machines relate to primer feed and powder drop problems, but again I submit that most of the complaints are from users who simply are not properly prepared to use the "precision tool" as Black Dog refers to the 650 and the LNL.
Like I said in my earlier post, my LNL still has the original primer feed system and the original case activated powder drop/measure system, and they both work perfectly for me. Can they cause problems if you have foreign material in the primer track or if you assemble the powder drop with the plug upside down? Absolutely, but that does not denote a problem with the machine. It shows a problem with the operator. I have used both machines and prefer the primer feed and powder dispenser systems on the LNL, but I guarantee you that I can go over to my neighbor's 650 and within a half hour or so be loading on it just as well as I am able to load with my LNL machine.
Black Dog also makes another very good point about user frustration with so many stops and starts on progressive machines which "... leave some people wondering why they didn`t get a single stage press for starts..." I constantly tell folks to forget about a progressive machine until they have learned to properly use a single stage machine. I spent over 35 years loading with single stage machines before I bought my LNL. Even though I have been using my LNL since 1997, I still have a couple of single stage presses that I still use for special jobs (usually small jobs) that are not worth bothering with a progressive machine.
I think Black Dog then seems to suggest that the 650 has "...the better, more reliable, more constantly accurate powder drop and primer system." If that is what Black Dog is suggesting, I am afraid I have to disagree with him there. Like I said earlier, I personally prefer the primer feed and powder drop systems of the LNL, but I would not suggest that either is better than the other. Again, I point out that all the systems on a progressive press are no better than the press's weakest link, and the weakest link on a problem press is usually the operator. And so many of the folks with problems on the 650 and the LNL turn out to be folks who are new to reloading and jump right in by buying a very complex progressive machine rather than starting with a single stage machine.
Everyone should have a single stage machine, whether they have a progressive machine or not.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
BigJakeJ1s
New member
Which options does the 650 allow that you prefer to the LNL AP and options?
Andy
Andy
David Wile
New member
Hey Weshoot,
I read your post several times, but like Andy has asked, I am afraid I do not understand how you can make your first statement: "IME the options that the XL650 allow far outweigh any price difference." What functional options or differences are there between the 650 and the LNL? They both have five stations, both are auto indexing, both have auto primer feed systems, both have auto powder dispensing, each has its own version of quick caliber change capability, and if you really want to go way out, both can add auto case feeders and auto bullet feeders. I don't know what you would call them if you would not call them functionally comparable?
Unlike your statement recommending the 650, I simply state that I prefer the LNL for my particular tastes. I also go on to tell the OP that I could function perfectly well with the 650 if I did not have a choice of the LNL. Both of these machines are well made and functionally comparable, and I think your last statement that you do not care about brand, only performance is misleading.
I, too, do not care about brand name, and I, too, care about performance. In my case, however, I could take either the 650 or the LNL and produce the same quality of ammunition with either one, and I further predict there would be little if any difference in the longevity of either machine in my use. Remember, since I first bought my LNL in 1997, the only part I ever replaced was one shell plate spring.
Again, I think the best advice to new folks is to find some friends who have both brands, use both brands until you understand them completely, and then make your choice. I think telling folks that either the 650 or the LNL is the better machine is based solely on one's own opinion after he has spent his money, and it does a disservice to the prospective buyer.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
I read your post several times, but like Andy has asked, I am afraid I do not understand how you can make your first statement: "IME the options that the XL650 allow far outweigh any price difference." What functional options or differences are there between the 650 and the LNL? They both have five stations, both are auto indexing, both have auto primer feed systems, both have auto powder dispensing, each has its own version of quick caliber change capability, and if you really want to go way out, both can add auto case feeders and auto bullet feeders. I don't know what you would call them if you would not call them functionally comparable?
Unlike your statement recommending the 650, I simply state that I prefer the LNL for my particular tastes. I also go on to tell the OP that I could function perfectly well with the 650 if I did not have a choice of the LNL. Both of these machines are well made and functionally comparable, and I think your last statement that you do not care about brand, only performance is misleading.
I, too, do not care about brand name, and I, too, care about performance. In my case, however, I could take either the 650 or the LNL and produce the same quality of ammunition with either one, and I further predict there would be little if any difference in the longevity of either machine in my use. Remember, since I first bought my LNL in 1997, the only part I ever replaced was one shell plate spring.
Again, I think the best advice to new folks is to find some friends who have both brands, use both brands until you understand them completely, and then make your choice. I think telling folks that either the 650 or the LNL is the better machine is based solely on one's own opinion after he has spent his money, and it does a disservice to the prospective buyer.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
SwampYankee
New member
That seems a bit condescending. I specifically caught this little gem of a sentence because my LNL came with an improperly drilled hole for the primer feed attachment and a misshapen primer guide wire. After a month of messing about (on and off whenever I could steal 10 minutes), I managed to get it to operate by remanufacturing one part and having Hornady send me a replacement for the other. But the unit was clearly defective. If I had not had the ability to fix and troubleshoot the machine, it would never have work properly- and that has nothing to do with knowing how to OPERATE a precision machine. And one of the dies plates (I have 4) is defective too. I have no experience with a Dillion and am happy with my LNL (finally) but have to presume that in this case, you get what you pay for.
I would never buy another Hornady LNL, I have had so many problems with the priming system, and after 4 months and a direct line to Hornady I have given up.
I find it impossible to use this progressive as a progressive.
I have been loading for 58 years so I know what i am doing.
I cannot prime on this machine and run 100 rounds without a hangup of some
kind.
I could kick myself for not getting a Dillon, but the bullet deal took me over the edge and I am paying for it.
lesson learned.
I find it impossible to use this progressive as a progressive.
I have been loading for 58 years so I know what i am doing.
I cannot prime on this machine and run 100 rounds without a hangup of some
kind.
I could kick myself for not getting a Dillon, but the bullet deal took me over the edge and I am paying for it.
lesson learned.
okay
The XL650 allows more options for which dies and powder measure are used, powder-check station, die-lock rings.
I've found the XL650 allows for easier case removal. Easier......all-around.
I'm not pooping on the L-N-L, just opining that it is not the proper press to compare against the XL650.
Perhaps it more closely compares to the RCBSs.....
I've noticed over my Forum Years that folks defend their press choices irrationally.
I currently run one LEE, a Lyman, a Co-Ax, and my XL650. It really isn't a 'brand' thing for me.
The XL650 allows more options for which dies and powder measure are used, powder-check station, die-lock rings.
I've found the XL650 allows for easier case removal. Easier......all-around.
I'm not pooping on the L-N-L, just opining that it is not the proper press to compare against the XL650.
Perhaps it more closely compares to the RCBSs.....
I've noticed over my Forum Years that folks defend their press choices irrationally.
I currently run one LEE, a Lyman, a Co-Ax, and my XL650. It really isn't a 'brand' thing for me.
BigJakeJ1s
New member
Which dies can the 650 use that the LNL AP cannot? Earlier models could not use dies in the last station that must contact the shell plate due to the ejector wire, but the current model EZ-ject system works with any die in any station.
OK, the dillon can use a Hornady PM (with a Hornady case activated linkage kit), but a Hornady cannot use a Dillon PM without modifications to activate (or-remove) the dillon "fail-safe" mechanism. I've seen a lot of Dillon users use Hornady or RCBS PMs and linkages, but only one person that used an older model Dillon PM (pre-fail-safe) on any other brand of progressive press (and it was not a Hornady). On the other hand, the LNL AP can use a PM in any station, whereas the Dillon can only use non-Dillon PMs in any station but #2.
The LNL AP can use any lock rings, even Dillon.
The LNL has the same room for a powder check station that the 650 has. The LNL AP frame must be modified slightly (a hole drilled) to use the Dillon powder-check system, but works fine as is with those from RCBS and Hornady.
There are a lot of users of both machines that would argue your opinion of relative ease of removing cartridges. Most prefer not fumbling with loose locator buttons.
There are many nice features of the Dillon 650 (the Dillon case feeder is easier to change over), and it is an excellent press, but the ones you mention (or the shortcomings of the LNL AP) suggest you are not familiar with the LNL AP.
Andy
OK, the dillon can use a Hornady PM (with a Hornady case activated linkage kit), but a Hornady cannot use a Dillon PM without modifications to activate (or-remove) the dillon "fail-safe" mechanism. I've seen a lot of Dillon users use Hornady or RCBS PMs and linkages, but only one person that used an older model Dillon PM (pre-fail-safe) on any other brand of progressive press (and it was not a Hornady). On the other hand, the LNL AP can use a PM in any station, whereas the Dillon can only use non-Dillon PMs in any station but #2.
The LNL AP can use any lock rings, even Dillon.
The LNL has the same room for a powder check station that the 650 has. The LNL AP frame must be modified slightly (a hole drilled) to use the Dillon powder-check system, but works fine as is with those from RCBS and Hornady.
There are a lot of users of both machines that would argue your opinion of relative ease of removing cartridges. Most prefer not fumbling with loose locator buttons.
There are many nice features of the Dillon 650 (the Dillon case feeder is easier to change over), and it is an excellent press, but the ones you mention (or the shortcomings of the LNL AP) suggest you are not familiar with the LNL AP.
Andy