Hornady 38 Special "Critical Defense" Load Question

[Doug S]

I've been using Speer Gold Dot ammo in my 642, but today while shopping for a little ammo at my local hardware store, I bought a box of Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr ammo. It has what looks to be a polymer filling the cavity of the hollowpoint. The 642 really like the load, and the recoil was not bad at all. I was wondering if anyone knows or has opinions on which load would be better for self defense in a 642...Hornady "Critical Defense", or Speer Gold Dot snubbie loads? Thanks for any feedback.

 

[madmag]

I have been using Critical Defense 110g +P in my .38 & .45ACP and I am very impressed. In addition I have done a lot of research and it appears it performs as advertised. Also, for semi's it is very smooth chambering. This has to do with the steep angle of the nose. I almost think it chambers better than FMJ in my .45's. One negative is that it does not penetrate hard targets like auto windshield as well as some other HP's, but I don't see that as much of a negative.

Bottom line, I also use Gold Dot snub 135g loads but find the Critical Defense as good or better.

 

[Doug S]

Thanks Madmag.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I use Gold Dots but I really doubt that you could prove one load is better than the other. Overall I think you've made two pretty good choices.

 

[Vermonter]

Critical Defense

I tired the gold dot as well as lots of other stuff before I settled. Turns out that my .38 loves the Critical Defense for two reasons. It groups better, and it seems to have more penetrating power. I tested penetration on everything from pumpkins to plywood and the Critical Defense won by a mile.

It is the same story in my LCP 380 with the addition of the fact that it is the only HP I could get to cycle smoothly. I have shot enough of it through both of those handguns to be carrying it as we speak and have not changed.

As for the polymer I believe (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) it has to do with less of a "hollow" cavity to slow down the bullet in flight.

Vermonter

 

[spacecoast]

As for the polymer I believe (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) it has to do with less of a "hollow" cavity to slow down the bullet in flight.

I believe the polymer is to prevent the cavity from getting clogged by clothing and also aids expansion when the bullet hits something solid.

 

[Vermonter]

Polymer

That would also make some sense. We will go with your version and strike mine from the record.
Either way these things do their jobs and then some.

 

[32 Magnum]

+1 to what Space coast posted. I've read all the Hornady advertising and several articles by testers - the Critical Defense with the FTX bullets seem to be just what you need for the little .380s and snub .38s. I'm convinced that's what I carry in both of my pieces.

 

[Vermonter]

+1

Boy there's a thought reading the manufactures information on the manufactures product. I wish I would have thought of that. Then again I am the type to look at something for an hour and try to figure out what it accomplishes.

 

[Jim March]

IF you're going to run +P, I think the Gold Dot 135gr is the better load.

What Hornady has here is a standard pressure variant that seems to at least work fairly well. And that's actually a breakthrough for standard-pressure expanding ammo, at least in terms of stuff available on a retail store shelf somewhere. (Buffalo Bore also cracked this problem.)

Their +P variant isn't so much of a breakthrough. Probably decent stuff but...I think a Gold Dot 135+P will beat it, the Remington 158+P all-lead hollowpoint will too, and Buffalo Bore's 38Spl+P loads in 125gr and esp. the 158+P will curb-stomp it and leave it for dead .

BUT, I'll say this about Hornady: at least they have something that works now. For the longest time they were trying to use XTP projectiles in this speed range and they were a miserable failure in every test I've seen. Absolute junk.

 

[Jim March]

As an aside: "pre-clogged hollowpoints" with expanding rubber in the tip have been done before, and have a pretty good track record. Federal's E-FMJ is a good choice if you've got a semi-auto that's very picky ammo ammo shape. Cor-Bon's "Pow'R'Ball" is also a success in most calibers, but it uses a very large rubber ball that eats into the total projectile weight so in the smaller rounds like the 38Spl, you get a round that I consider a bit light (100gr). Works well as a 45ACP though (165gr).

So, what Hornady is trying to do here is fundamentally sound. They've upped the projectile weight to 110gr which has a decent track record of being minimal for the 38Spl and successful in other slugs (Cor-Bon 110+P JHP, DPX, many others).

 

[Doug S]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I think I'll go and buy some more, and start using it as a carry load. The local store doesn't carry Gold Dot, and I like being able to pick up my ammo locally.

 

[147 Grain]

Heard good things about the Critical Defense Load, but keep in mind that it gives minimal penetration compared to the FBI load or Speer's 135-gr. bonded Gold Dot and doesn't meet FBI protocol.

If I carried Critical Defense in my revolvers, I would never CC outside of the home with it. Hornady designed this load for inside the home without penetrating any barriers like glass and etc.

 

[KyJim]

Getting hard, verifiable data is a bit of a challenge. I did find this post on tests performed on ballistic gel:

Turns out the Hornady FTX ammo does not do well...

All shots from a 1/7/8" barrel S&W J-frame at 10 ft.

.38 Sp Hornady 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense", ave vel=867fps
BG: pen=12.1"; RD=0.47"; RL=0.41"; RW=109.4gr
4LD: pen=19"+; RD=0.35"; RL=0.55"; RW=109.6gr

On the other hand, the Corbon DPX standard pressure load worked GREAT!!!

.38 Sp Corbon 110 gr JHP DPX (using Barnes XPB all copper bullets), ave vel=1021fps
BG: pen=13.0"; RD=0.52", RL=0.52", RW=109.5gr
4LD pen=12.4"; RD=0.52", RL=0.51", RW=109.7gr

.38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot, ave vel=853fps (gold box)
BG: pen=12.6”, RD=0.54”, RL= 0.46", RW=133.4gr
4LD: pen=13.8”, RD=0.55”, RL=0.51", RW=135.5gr

At this point in time, the two best loads for 2" J-frames are the Corbon 110 gr JHP DPX standard pressure load and the Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot.

Post 24 at http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=25310&page=2

Now, this is one test. I've looked at enough of these to know that you have to gather data from more than one test before coming to a conclusion. For example, Hornady sent the tester a new batch and:

.38 Sp Hornady 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense", ave vel=876fps
BG: pen=12.7"; RD=0.46"; RL=0.40"; RW=108.9gr
4LD: pen=14.2"; RD=0.42"; RL=0.55"; RW=108.9gr

.38 Sp Hornady 110 gr +P FTX "Critical Defense", ave vel=940fps
BG: pen=12.3"; RD=0.52", RL=0.38", RW=109.0gr
4LD: pen=14.6"; RD=0.46", RL=0.43", RW=109.5gr

We also opened up a new case of Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP (53121), lot #L24N34, packed in a new type of 50 rd black box (previous lots have used a gold box) to serve as a control and comparison round.

.38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot, ave vel=808fps (low of 744fps-high of 853 fps)
BG: pen=12.2”, RD=0.51”, RL= 0.51", RW=135.0gr
4LD: pen=19”+, RD=0.39”, RL=0.62", RW=135.1gr

While the Gold Dots were acceptable in bare gel, the 4 layer denim test was an unexpected and heretofore unseen disaster, with the NO test shots exhibiting adequate expansion. The inconsistent velocity with overly large spread was of significant concern and likely plays a role in this failure.

Unfortunately, this bad lot of Gold Dot is on the street as issued BUG ammo for a large PD--this is a textbook example of why EVERY lot of duty ammo should ideally be tested to ensure adequate performance BEFORE being issued.

Post 34 at http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=25310&page=2

I have read enough other tests on the Gold Dots to know that the second batch tested was a highly unusual occurrence.

 

[Vermonter]

in home defense

So if I am to understand this correctly the CD stuff is designed not to over penetrate. This makes me like the round even more. I carry a lot in home and other places where I am concerned with my surroundings. This seems like a good idea to me.

 

[madmag]

Hornady designed this load for inside the home without penetrating any barriers like glass and etc.

That's not the case at all, at least from what I read. Hornady's introduction video says nothing about just for in house use. Actually the opposite, they recommend this is a good all round SD ammo, and from the test results I see no reason to disagree. Critical defense is not like Mag-Safe or similar specialty ammo, it works like other HP's except it does not get clogged easily and it expands very reliably. Also, it will in fact go through hard barriers, maybe not like FMJ, but it sure will go through glass, walls etc.

Here is one of the original Critical Defense video's. Notice they talk mostly about CCW pistols, not for home use only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhXSTqV0CT4

 

[HoraceHogsnort]

madmag wrote: "I also use Gold Dot snub 135g loads but find the Critical Defense as good or better."

How do you find it better, do you go out and shoot people?

 

[8shot357]

How do you find it better, do you go out and shoot people?

LOL

I've been using Speer Gold Dot ammo in my 642,

How do you compare them in a 1-7/8" barrel revolver?

 

[madmag]

How do you find it better, do you go out and shoot people?

Of course, how else would you test? I hope you don't depend on water jugs for your testing.

How do you compare them in a 1-7/8" barrel revolver?

Hornady actually designed the Critical Defense for short barrel pistols. The data posted by KyJim above shows very good performance from short barrel.

 

[8shot357]

madmag

Hornady actually designed the Critical Defense for short barrel pistols. The data posted by KyJim above shows very good performance from short barrel.

So there better than GD 135g SB? I hope so because they are more expensive!