Hoping for an answer

T

the45er

New member
I have been reloading for and shooting 40 S&Ws and 45 ACP's for several years not. I haven't had a 9 mm in years. A few months ago I bought a SIG P938 SAS and loaded some rounds using 115 grain Berry's RN over 4.6 grains of IMR 7625. I used this rather unusual powder because I had a few pounds of it left over from past uses. It shot well - accurate enough for a micro-compact gun and never jammed.

Fast forward to yesterday when I picked up my brand new Ruger SR1911 9mm Target. I loaded the clips and started shooting. Over 1/2 the time, these loads would not eject the empty casing. I'd shoot, try to shoot again only to realize that the slide was not back and was over a spent casing in the chamber. I had a box of factory loads. Shot all 50 of them without a hiccup.

Now, I'm not sure whether to (1) shoot 200+ factory rounds and see if the pistol loosens up, (2) boost up the powder weight from 4.6 to 4.9 [MAX listed by Hodgdon] and see what happens, or (3) switch to another powder and/or heavier bullet?

I realize that I could pretty easily try all three of these options myself, but I'd like to know what TFL forum folks think. Also, any recommendation for a good 9mm powder? I use Unique in my 45 ACPs and Bullseye for my 40's.

Thank you.
 
U

USSR

New member
the45er,

An old IMR reloading manual I have lists 5.1gr of SR-7625 for a 115gr bullet, but that is for a jacketed bullet, so I would bump up your charge weight to 4.9gr and see what that does for you. Great powder. I use it, but not for 9mm.

Don
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
You also need to figure out your seating depth, and compare that to the data on the Hodgdon site. The only bullet they show in 115-grain with that powder is a "SPR GDHP" -- which I translate to mean Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point. You are loading a plated, round nose bullet. You can measure 5 of your bullets, average the length, compare that to your C.O.A.L. and calculate your seating depth. The question is, can you obtain comparable information to calculate what Hodgdon's seating depth is for that recipe?

What are you using for C.O.A.L.? I load that bullet to a C.O.A.L. of 1.160". Berry's suggests 1.13".
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
Shoot a couple hundred rounds of quality factory ammo. Verify the pistol is functioning properly.

THEN start testing and tweaking your reloads.
 
B

BJung

New member
SR7625

My source lists 9-115gr Hornady JHP at 5.2gr S7625 and (if you want to try) 4.7gr -4.8gr Bullseye.
 
T

the45er

New member
thanks for these replies. helpful for sure. I think I will try to bump the load to 4.9 and see what that does. I indexed the seating depth against a factory 115 grain RN bullet.
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
Seating Depth = Case Length + Bullet Length - Cartridge Overal Length (COL)

If the factory 115 grain RN bullet isn't the same length as the Berry's, then seating depth will be different when COL is the same.

To get a match, measure the COL of the factory bullet and pull the bullet and measure its length (and then put the cartridge back together; we're not trying to waste money here). For case length, just use the SAAMI number. It will be a constant throughout, so individual case lengths don't matter. We are actually trying to control powder space under the bullet here in order to keep pressures close to matching.

Next, calculate the seating depth as above.

Next, rearrange the formula using the found seating depth and the Berry's bullet length to find the COL you need with the Berry's bullet to match seating depth:

COL (Berry's) = Case Length + Bullet Length (Berry's) - Seating Depth (found for the factory load.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
the45er said:
thanks for these replies. helpful for sure. I think I will try to bump the load to 4.9 and see what that does. I indexed the seating depth against a factory 115 grain RN bullet.
Click to expand...
No, you didn't -- unless you did a lot of math in your head. I think you mean that you matched the C.O.A.L. (Cartridge OverAll Length) of a factory round. That doesn't tell you the seating depth. Seating depth is how far the base of the bullet extends into the case.

I did the same thing you did when I started loading .45 ACP -- using Berry's 230-grain bullets. Not having anything else to go by, and seeing that at that time Berry's load "information" was to use any load data for a similar weight bullet (!!!), I measured several factory Winchester 230-grain roundnose cartridges, and started loading to that same length.

When I checked my loads over a chronograph, they were more than 100 fps slower than what I expected. I was expecting in the low 800s -- what I got was in the mid- to high 600s. I eventually figured out that (at least in .45 ACP), Berry's bullets are very short compared against other bullets of the same weight. So, loaded to the same cartridge overall length, that means less bullet inside the case (less seating depth). In turn, that means more volume behind the bullet, so lower pressure and lower velocity.

I also load Berry's 115-grain 9mm bullet, so I can give you its dimensions. The bullet itself measures .553 inches in overall length. A rough breakdown gives a body length (the straight part of the base) of .259 inches and a nose length of .294. You can use those numbers to calculate your seating depth, as Unclenick has explained. But to compare that to a factory round, you will need to pull the bullets from a couple of factory rounds and measure the actual bullet lengths and case lengths.

You didn't answer my earlier question of what you used for a C.O.A.L. As I posted above, I load that bullet to a C.O.A.L. of 1.160" and Berry's suggests 1.13". Also, what factory round did you use as your model for selecting a C.O.A.L.?

I have to comment that, as much as I like Berry's bullets, I have found their loading suggestions (which have changed several times over the years I have been buying their bullets) to be infuriatingly frustrating, inherently useless, and misleading (at best). For the bullet under discussion, the Berry's web site offers the following nuggets of wisdom:

  • Load data for our Superior Plated Bullets® can be found in any manual or on any powder manufacturer’s website.
  • Cast or jacketed data with the same grain weight and profile will work with our bullets.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with these statements? First, I have found only one powder manufacturer's data that mentions Berry's bullets, and it's not a powder I have ever seen for sale in a store around here or that I would ever have contemplated buying. So that statement is untrue.

Second, aside from the fact that cast lead and jacketed bullets don't behave the same, not all bullets of the same weight and general profile have the same bullet length. Therefore, generalizing to say that data for any bullet of the same weight and profile will work is not a valid statement.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
burbank jung said:
My source lists 9-115gr Hornady JHP at 5.2gr S7625 and (if you want to try) 4.7gr -4.8gr Bullseye.
Click to expand...
He's not loading a Hornady JHP, he's loading a Berry's round nose bullet. Load data for any JHP are irrelevant unless you can attest that the seating depths are the same for both.
 
T

the45er

New member
I have ordered 500 124 grain RN Berrys bullets and am waiting for them to arrive (Man, are 9mm components hard to find!). In the meantime, I found 75 bullets in my inventory. They were .356", 115 grain copper jacketed RN's. I went to the IMR loading data sheet and read the 5.1 grains of IMR 7625 was the recommended load with an OAL of 1.100". So, I loaded them up and guess what, they shot flawlessly in my new Ruger SR1911 9mm and on top of that, they were very, very accurate.

Again, thanks for all the input here. Very helpful.
 
T

the45er

New member
I'm going to like this gun and load!

I had a chance to shoot a clip of these 115 grain IMR 7625 loads today with my new Ruger SR1911 9mm target. These were at 14 yards free hand. For me, this is as good as I can shoot. I frankly am wondering now why I can't shoot my 45 ACP 1911's as well as this. It's got to be recoil control. I know these 45's can do it, and now that I know I can do it too, I'm going to work harder.

Anyway, the load worked well. I just hope the 124 grain Berry's bullets perform similarly!
 

Attachments

  • Ruger SR1911 target.jpg
    Ruger SR1911 target.jpg
    133.2 KB · Views: 27
M

Mike38

New member
Rather than keeping two 9mm loads on hand, one for the Sig and one for the Ruger, why not just install a reduced power recoil spring in the Ruger? One, maybe two pound lighter recoil spring should do it.
 
T

the45er

New member
That is a good idea!

My thought is to get the 500 124 grain Berry's bullets in and see how they work in the Ruger (I will first try 4.9 grain of IMR 7625). If they work well, I'll shoot them in the little SIG and see how those work out too. If they work and the recoil isn't too bad, I'll settle on that one load.

Actually, I probably won't shoot the SIG P938 much. Only enough to stay proficient with drawing from concealment. That is my primary carry gun. So far it's worked flawlessly and I almost don't know it's there with a Kydex IWB holster.

Thanks for the input. Would Ruger be the best place to go for that reduced recoil spring? I used to by Wolff springs years ago, but have bought one in a long time.
 
M

Mike38

New member
Wolff would be the best place to buy reduced power recoil springs. It would be good to know what Ruger puts in the SR1911-9mm then order a couple, one and two pound lighter.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
the45er said:
My thought is to get the 500 124 grain Berry's bullets in and see how they work in the Ruger (I will first try 4.9 grain of IMR 7625). If they work well, I'll shoot them in the little SIG and see how those work out too. If they work and the recoil isn't too bad, I'll settle on that one load.
Click to expand...
The Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR web site shows only one 124-grain bullet in the 9mm category, and it may or may not be the one you bought. It's listed for a C.O.A.L. of 1.150 inches, and 4.9 grains is the suggested maximum load.

Why are you starting at the maximum load? The range is 4.3 to 4.9 grains.

Not to beat a dead horse, but remember that seating depth matters. The Hodgdon data is listed for a "124 GR. BERB HBRN TP" bullet. I'm going to guess that this may translate as "Berry's Bullets Hollow-Base Round Nose Thick Plate," and the Berry's web site happens to list such a bullet (#15143) and suggest a C.O.A.L. of 1.150".

Berry's also has a 124-grain round nose, #76848, that isn't a hollow base. They list that one for a suggested C.O.A.L. of 1.160". The hollow-base bullet is actually a longer bullet, yet they want you to seat it deeper. But the hollow base increases the volume behind the bullet, so without knowing the volume of that recess, it isn't possible to make any useful comparisons.

So which Berry's bullet did you buy? If it's the #76848 (solid base) round nose -- where did you get your load data, what are you using for a C.O.A.L., and why are you starting at what may be a maximum load?
 
T

the45er

New member
Well heck - one would think that I'd learn! After all the "concern" expressed on loading 4.9 grains of IMR SR7625 under a 124 gr Berry's RN 9 mm bullet, I called Hodgdon and talked to one of their reloading experts. He explained to me how much better modern technology is to measure pressure and said that 4.9 grains was too much and strongly advised that I use the data for a "125 GR. LCN" bullet which had a starting load of 3.9 and max load of 4.1 grains of 7625. Like an idiot I loaded up 100 rounds using 4.1 grains. Well guess what, they don't have enough pressure to eject out of my Ruger1911!! Each one shoots and I have to rack the slide to eject it.

Next time I'll be smart and not load up 100 rounds based on someone's advice. I'll work up to the minimum load that will operate the dang gun. I sure hope these shoot ok in my other 2 9mm's!
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Why don't you just go to Brownells web site and order a lighter recoil spring for your Ruger 1911? I assume that's a full-size (5" barrel) pistol. I don't know for sure what Ruger uses for a 9mm recoil spring. Wolff says that "factory" (for a Colt) is 14 pounds. So buy a 12-pound and try that.
 
T

the45er

New member
Did that................

.............another dumbass move on my part. I ordered a 10# spring (factory is 12#) only to find out that this 5" Ruger is a bushingless model with a bull barrel. Sometime in the last couple of years Ruger went that way. Now I have a 10# spring with no home.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top