Holsters?

Phoebe

New member
So, yesterday, I found and purchased a Serpa Blackhawk paddle holster. I'd heard great reviews and was very pleased with myself.

Then, I found out this isn't a concealment holster.

Huh? I clearly don't know what I don't know. That never occurred to me.

It is very comfortable, but if it's not useful for carrying concealed, I don't know what I need it for. (I can return it.) I suppose I could keep it in case I decide I want to OC. :confused:

Now, someone told me about this Ghost Inc, Stealth Holster:
http://www.ghostinc.com/product/GHO_STH/GI_STEALTH.html

Aside from it accommodating a light, I'm not sure what else makes it wonderful.

What holsters would you recommend for concealed carry? I'd be esp interested in learning about anything that doesn't require a belt or a thick belt, (which is why I was so pleased with the Serpa.)

There is a gun show in a week or two. No clue if those things have good prices or bad. But I figure it's a chance to try on a lot of carry options. (Is it a good place to make purchases?)
 

J.Netto

New member
I have one for every model handgun I own. They are excellent range holsters. During the winter months, it is a comfortable concealment holster. Although I almost always use an IWB for that, Any time of the year.
 

Phoebe

New member
Another stupid question....on range holsters?

I don't know if there are different rules in different ranges. But at my gun club, I don't ever see anyone OC. Near as I can figure, your firearm has to be unloaded, etc, when you walk in.

A different nearby store has nearly every employee OC.

Every day I go to the first store, it seems like I do something that is not right. Yesterday, I left the magazine in. The day before, I had the slide closed. The guy seemed a bit grumpy with me yesterday. But no one has given me any list of detailed rules.

I don't point the thing at anyone. I keep my finger off the trigger. I treat every gun like it's loaded. So, if they have a bunch more beyond that, I wish they'd tell me.

Anyway, getting off subject a bit. But I suppose I could have the holster on, with no gun in it, walk into the range, put my gun on, and then practice drawing??
 

finfanatic

New member
What firearm?

What firearm are you trying to conceal?

Generally, the better belt you have and the more the holster connects to that belt the better "carry" you get.

Of course, it is a lot less hassle to grab a holster and clip it inside your pants. It is generally less secure that way though.

Personally I like Bianchi.

http://www.bianchi-intl.com/

This one is "perfect for casual carry" Bianchi says.

http://www.bianchi-intl.com/product/Prod.php?TxtModelID=6D

But if you need to really secure a firearm concealed, try this:

http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/

Lots of people LOVE the SuperTuck.

I think you will need a good gun belt for either of these options though. Unless you are gonna pocket carry a Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP or the like.

The you will need....

http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/browse.do?action=refresh_browse&ctg_id=4204

The Nemesis or the Super Fly work well in the pocket.
 

J.Netto

New member
You may or may not need a " range holster " I guess it all depends on where you are shooting. And what type of shooting you are going to do. For me, I conceal carry on a daily basis, have taken defensive firearms courses, and used to shoot IDPA. So, I am a " from the holster " kind of guy. :D

Some ranges or gun clubs may not allow you to have the weapon holstered whether it is loaded or not. I wouldn't know, I always shoot on private land, and use a holster. Many of the firing drills, or shooting scenarios I work on are from the holster. I like to practice drawing and re holstering the weapon smooth and safe.

I don't point the thing at anyone. I keep my finger off the trigger. I treat every gun like it's loaded. So, if they have a bunch more beyond that, I wish they'd tell me.

I don't know how long you have been shooting, but you will learn. It takes time. If your unsure about specific rules where you are shooting, you need to ask. Having someone that is more experienced work with you is a good idea as well.
 

Chindo18Z

New member
kayla: The depicted Stealth Holster might work for you, but...

You didn't specifically say what firearm you own. If it's a Glock, Springfield XD, or S&W M&P (all of which have a similar trigger design), the Stealth Holster IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. A holster which completely covers the entire trigger area is preferred.

I am amazed that anyone would consider marketing a holster that does not cover/secure the exposed trigger on a Glock. Any semi-auto featuring a trigger mounted safety bar (the little lever seen in the center of the Glock's trigger) is an accident waiting to happen without a holster which precludes snagging or inadvertant pressure on that trigger.

I once knew a minor Bosnian Mafia lordling who walked around with a loaded Glock jammed for show into the front of his trousers (the muzzle pointed at his crotch and the trigger completely unprotected). He was a useful tool for information but knew absolutely nothing about firearms. As I didn't actually like him, I neglected to correct his practice. Ultimately, he deserved his fate. Glocks are excellent firearms. They require excellent holster design.

Any holster which leaves the trigger of a Glock exposed is inviting disaster sometime during the normal course of daily carry. Bending over, sitting down, reaching for seat belts, getting in/out of cars, tucking a blouse, finger adjusting the holster for comfort while wearing it, bumping your hip into hard objects or furniture, falling down (or being thrown down), small children tugging at your waist, people giving you a an unexpected hug...any of theses things could potentially discharge the weapon (possibly into your legs or buttocks). Don't get me wrong. A loaded Glock is not a live scorpion at your waist, and the odds of one being accidently discharged are low, but the possibility exists when the trigger is not covered.

BTW, I have owned and concealed carried various Glocks since 1985.

What you've got with the Stealth holster is a combination of "Mexican Carry" (jamming an unholstered pistol into your waistband) combined with the old revolver "Clip-Draw" (a grip mounted clip that slides over your waistband) and a novel means of being able to mount a light. While this lash-up would work well for cocked & locked single actions (1911s or Browning High Power), all revolvers, and double action semi-autos (SIG, HK, Beretta, Bersa, CZ, etc.), it is less than optimum for Glock-style trigger bar safety designs.

The below holsters will deliver what I think you are looking for. All are quality products from extremely reputable and well known firms:

http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=53

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT2.asp

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/img_pop.aspx?pid=568

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/img_pop.aspx?pid=5188

http://www.blade-tech.com/Paddle-Holster-pr-876.html

http://www.hoffners.com/min4.jpg

http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/browse.do?action=refresh_browse&ctg_id=4210

All of the above can be ordered on-line.

Try this link for a fairly sizeable list of even more holster makers...

http://alumbankweb.com/cc-riglinks.php

P.S. - I've got a Serpa Paddle for a Beretta 92FS. Not the best design I've ever used, but it works for concealed carry dependent upon clothing worn (under a jacket or coat works best).

Hope this helps.
 

KyJim

New member
My private club has a bulls-eye type pistol range in addition to practical pistol shooting pits. On the range, you're supposed to bring in any guns you're shooting cased. No open carry on the range. They're okay with concealed carry but don't unholster it at the range. Of course, in the pistol pits, holster carry is fine.

At a public indoor range I sometimes go to, it's not quite as strict though they don't want you walking through the store openly carrying.

You just have to know the rules of each particular range.
 

Phoebe

New member
No matter how much I learn, there is so much I don't know. :confused: I'm probably learning faster than most, but geez there is a lot to this stuff!!

Finfanatic, right now, I own an XD9, but am looking into getting a much smaller gun for concealment -- some kind of small(er) semi-auto in 9mm or .380. So the question is general to the XD9 and to a smaller firearm.

Chindo, this is the kind of info I need. I assume the reason for this is the XD's safety's are the trigger and hand grip, and if you then reach for your gun the wrong way, you could end up with an ND? The Glock design seems even more likely to allow for that scenario.

So, if the Stealth isnt' entirely safe, what am I looking for? (Generically? Sounds like something that entirely covers the trigger? What is the diff between a holster designed for CC vs OC? How do I recognize the difference in design?)

Ideally, I want an IWB and in an even more ideal world, some mechanism that doesn't require a big belt. This is why I liked the Serpa design so much.

Chindo (or anyone), please speak to me about the safety of the compression tshirt? No trigger guard, no nothing, and I confess the tshirt makes me nervous.

Though I have the big rules of safety, I don't know the nuances yet. And I am not necessarily thinking it through. So your comments on the holster surprise me, esp in that it wasn't brought up to me by others.
 

Chindo18Z

New member
Chindo, this is the kind of info I need. I assume the reason for this is the XD's safety's are the trigger and hand grip, and if you then reach for your gun the wrong way, you could end up with an ND? The Glock design seems even more likely to allow for that scenario.

Your XD is going to be safer in this regard than a comparable Glock precisely because it has the grip safety.

So, if the Stealth isnt' entirely safe, what am I looking for? (Generically? Sounds like something that entirely covers the trigger? What is the diff between a holster designed for CC vs OC? How do I recognize the difference in design?)

No real design difference (or requirements) for an OC vs. CC holster as far as the actual part that encloses the gun. The leather, Kydex, etc. shell just needs to cover the trigger. It can still allow the entire grip and rear of the slide to run exposed (if so desired). An open carry holster simply allows the designer to utilize more material for support or stability (since nothing needs to be hidden or fitted inside a waistband). A paddle holster will probably work well for you. You just need one that rides high (placing the grip where it can taking advantage of the female waist) and holds the weapon close to your body.

Since you allowed that you might be interested in IWB, look at the Hoffner's design in the link I provided. Notice that the trigger guard area and trigger are completely encased by the hard shell of the holster body while the rest of the rig is still about as streamlined and minimalistic as you could get.

Chindo (or anyone), please speak to me about the safety of the compression tshirt? No trigger guard, no nothing, and I confess the tshirt makes me nervous.

Not familiar with this design (is this like UnderArmor sportswear?). It sounds as if it utilizes the same principles as an elastic belly band (generally a wide stretchy Velcro fastened garter belt for your waist or lower chest and incorporating an open pocket/pouch for the gun). These work great for small semi-autos or j-frame sized revolver which have a double-action first shot trigger pull. Something like a Kel-Tec, Kahr, Ruger LCP, S&W J-Frame revolver, Walther PPK, SIG 230, etc. should work fine simply held by friction. Anything that is going to snag a double action trigger and pull it clean through would require hooking the trigger and applying considerable force.

BTW: You are ahead of 90% of all firearm owners in that you are making a concerted effort to get an education. The internet is an amazing thing. You are doing fine. A lot of things are trial and error, but every day you read and sift through opinions and experiences is a day closer to greater expertise.

I remember reading your first post; you are already sounding like someone to be reckoned with in a discussion on firearms.

CCW firearms self defense is not rocket science, but it's a bit more than a hobby. Just remember this Twelve-Step Program:

1. Practice the 4 Rules.
2. Have a reliable handgun.
3. Have a comfortable/secure (not necessarily expensive) holster.
4. Practice.
5. Develop a daily routine for carry and don't deviate (avoiding Murphy).
6. Practice.
7. Mentally Rehearse. Visualize Your Actions in Advance.
8. Adopt a Philosophy of Personal Survival in Advance...Him or Me.
9. Practice Some More.
10. Train [read forums, take a shooting course; dry fire; practice drawing from your holster, reloading, and reholstering (day and night); watch videos; read books].
11. Don't get fancy. Point the gun at the threat, aim for the biggest exposed part of your target, and hit it.
12. If it doesn't stop, fall down, or run away...shoot it again.

Did I mention practice? :)
 
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Kyo

New member
i went to simplyrugged.com and bought me a Cuda model for my P345. Then I got the inside out straps too. Rob is a really nice guy!(the owner) then I got the belt. I use them every day. I can carry IWB(inside the waistband) or OWB(outside the waistband) open or concealed either way very comfortably in the car, when I walk, sit, or anything.
I am 5'10 and around 150 lbs. I conceal a full size Ruger P345(around the same size as your XD, you should compare to get an idea) and when I was at my family dinner, no one noticed me wearing it. I had it IWB with a tank top over it at 4 oclock. And I mean no one, and my aunt hates guns in her house so when she found out she was POed!
My suggestion to you is to get a low rise IWB holster, or the thunderwear i told you about. That way you can feel like superman like you said. :D
I want to try a cross breed super tuck but I have no need since I <3 my rig. Good luck on your search! and be careful cause some holsters like Fobus claim they are for concealment when they clearly ARE NOT!

I tried that bianchi 6dATB. I didn't like it! it was too high rise. thats why I said low rise clip. My review of that holster is a C. I gave it away
 

Phoebe

New member
Kyo, you're talking over my head some...

How can I be careful about a holter that claims concealment that isn't, when I don't know what I'm looking for?

Mostly, I'm thinking IWB would conceal better? And also be more likely to be stable without a belt?

Chindo, yes, I guess the tshirt is like a belly band. It's like a big, deep pocket. Bad for a fast draw. But I'm trying to figure out how that could be safe if a holster that doesn't cover the trigger is unsafe?

Thanks for the nice compliment. At a range, standing still, with my XD, I've become a very decent shot in a short amount of time. My dogs were barky the other night -- grabbed my flashlight, magazine and gun (gun was unloaded) and really felt hugely better with these tools. The new flashlight lights up my whole yard when I'm inside of my house.

So, yes, I'm starting to feel a bit of confidence in being able to take care of myself.

Saw this Jeff Cooper quote yesterday, "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." I have been living that, even before I bought the XD. I am intent on not only owning it, but knowing how to play it. (And play it safely.) ;)
 

sakeneko

New member
Kayla, I don't know the holster you got, but "for concealment" is in the eye of the beholder. If you can dress in a way that this holster holds your gun and it's concealed, you've got a concealment holster no matter what the seller thought it was. :) It took trying several for me to settle on a holster, and I got lucky it wasn't several more. You're doing fine.

I have been living that, even before I bought the XD. I am intent on not only owning it, but knowing how to play it. (And play it safely.) ;)

+1 on that. ;)
 

wally626

New member
The Serpa Blackhawk is considered a concealed holster, it is just not going to conceal as well as an IWB, pocket carry or some of the underwear type holsters. You would need to wear clothing that covers it, like a coat or large shirt.
 

Chindo18Z

New member
Chindo, yes, I guess the tshirt is like a belly band. It's like a big, deep pocket. Bad for a fast draw. But I'm trying to figure out how that could be safe if a holster that doesn't cover the trigger is unsafe?

kayla: I'm only caveating Glock type weapons (striker fired SA / trigger bar safety) when it comes to covering the trigger with something solid (a layer of leather, polymer, etc.).

There is no second chance with striker fired pistols whose only safety external safety is that little trigger bar. Anything that could get into the trigger inadvertently (fingers, bunched up clothing, etc.) COULD press the trigger when you don't want it to be pressed. When Glock first marketed their weapon they offered a little one piece molded belt slide...that covered the trigger...and offered adequate retention...and was basically a polymer Yaqui Slide. Simple, cheap, and effective. I've still got mine.

I can safely carry a holsterless double action S&W snub nosed revolver in my pants or jacket pocket (or a large pouch or belly band). Nothing is going to be able to exert enough pressure to simultaneously hook the trigger and deliver a long double action pull (or inadvertently cock the revolver to unplanned for single action readiness). The same applies to any DAO or DA/SA semi-auto. The problem lies when folks start adding other things to their pocket (like a key ring, loose change, or anything else that could become lodged inside the trigger guard AND possibly catch on the inside of the pocket when you go to draw).

A proper holster ensures that only your trigger finger ever gets inside the trigger guard...and only when you intend for that to happen.

If you put your XD into a large pouch held close to your body, theoretically something (or someone you are struggling with) could cause the grip safety to become depressed at the same time the trigger is pulled. Not very likely with the XD's setup, but a definite possibility and much more so with the Glock.

Virtually ALL holsters protect the trigger. The Stealth Holster you linked to is one of the very few holsters I've ever seen that doesn't. In the Intelligence Analysis world, that's called an Indicator.

The Serpa body was originally designed as a military OC holster and was not optimized for slimness. Blackhawk started adding paddles to them for wearer convenience. After adding the paddle and connecting hardware to the holster body, that particular rig does not have as low of a body hugging profile as some other brands specifically designed for CCW from the get go. Nothing wrong with it...just a Ford vs. Chevy thing.

Who told you your Serpa was not designed for concealment? A good cover garment (coat, blouse, sweater, jacket, windbreaker, heavy untucked shirt, etc.) will cover it just fine.

Go to: http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx and read everything that Kathy Jackson (our own TFL Moderator "pax") has written (especially the discussion on holsters, concealment, and the very different aspects of male vs. female anatomy as they relate to CCW).

P.S. - Fobus cracked the code on marketing a cheap and functional RANGE holster that can serve for emergency CCW use. You wakeup at 0200 in the AM, slip the inexpensive Fobus paddle on and you are ready to deal with things without having to have the weapon in your hands. Not the best holster to walk around the mall with. Definitely not the holster to get into weapon retention struggles that a cop must be prepared to deal with on a daily basis. Sometimes, an individual Fobus will cling to a particular weapon like a tick, precluded a swift draw or (in extreme cases) causing you to have a complete hangup when you really need the gun.

There are a lot BETTER holsters out there, but the Fobus is OK and light years better than no-name, one-size-fits-many-guns, generic nylon pouch holsters in the same price range.

But...for about $22, Fobus has sold a bazillion of them. I have several. I use something better for daily carry.
 
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Kyo

New member
ok, an IWB worn holster does conceal better. You still need a belt. maybe not a gun belt if you wear it like that, but a belt regardless.
You are looking for something that will not give away that you are carrying a full size 9mm. Considering you told me you have a small frame body, and are under 140(maybe even 100?) I would say it all depends on what you are putting on every day.
If you do a shirt/jeans untucked then a simple IWB holster will do you fine. It will conceal the bottom part of your gun in your jeans, and the grip will be out, but covered by the shirt. I wish I had my camera with me I would explain.
if you are gonna do tight fit stuff, then maybe a Cross-breed super tuck, or the thunderwear I was talking about.
 

CortJestir

New member
Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe, FTW - big and ugly - but comfortable and makes many handguns disappear rather well.

You don't need a big honking belt for it either - just a good sturdy gun belt. I have a 1.25" The Beltman gun belt.
 

golfnutrlv

New member
Kayla,

Crossbreed supertuck deluxe is an excellent choice as others have mentioned.

Also, try: High Noon.

This family owned operation makes super good leather and synthetic concealment and outside the waist band holsters. I have two of them, one the Topless for my M&P9, and a Public secret for carrying my Glock 26. (good gun to look at for carry (referencing your other thread .380 v 9mm).
 

sakeneko

New member
ROLF, CortJestr! I'm not as "girly" a dresser as I gather kayla is, but I don't own and would never wear a belt as large as 1.25". My belts are all 1/2" to 3/4" belts. I know of women who wear broad belts, but those tend to be 2" to 3" patent leather or fancy cloth belts, not meant to carry anything on them. Most women just don't dress like guys, for some reason. ;-)

For what it's worth, though, I carried a S&W Model 60 revolver in a Simply Rugged "Silver Dollar" pancake holster concealed IWB on a 3/5" belt today. The Model 60 is a J-frame (small revolver), but it's twice the weight of the "airframe" revolvers and mine has a 3" barrel. It concealed just fine nonetheless. If I'm not wearing a belt or it's just too hot for a coverup garment, I wear a belly band right under my bra and attach the holster to it right between the cups. That conceals it like a charm, and it's easily accessible if I need to get to it fast.

However, I'm reasonably tall for a woman (5'7"), definitely overweight, and have lots of curves. A smaller woman, and especially one with fewer curves, can conceal a gun (often even a large gun) but would do it differently. It looks like Kayla is already checking out Cornered Cat and the Women with Guns page, though, so she's getting all the same information on this that I did back in April and May when I went looking.
 

Phoebe

New member
I wonder if I will ever ask a question here and get a simple answer. ;)

Yes, I'm small framed, 5'5' and under 140 and I like to wear tailored or even body-hugging clothes. BUT....winter is coming. I wear my leather jacket everywhere. And I'd guess that would conceal an awful lot, possibly including my full sized XD if i had the right accessories.

I read and re-read cornered cat. I'm also reading gun reviews. But there is still a lot I'm confused about.

I understand safety 101. I am drilling it on a daily basis to make sure that I understand it in my body, not just my brain.

But I don't understand more intricate safety issues. And as a newbie, some things are horribly confusing.
1) don't point a gun at anything you aren't willing to ventilate
2) put a gun in your pocket

:confused:

Huh?? How is it safe in my pocket?

My XD has a a grip safety on top of, what seems to me to be a "worthless" trigger safety. The Glocks don't even have a grip safety. And I don't understand what safety features are on other guns. Long pull, does not sound like a serious safety feature.

So then I'm told the Ghost isn't safe because the trigger is exposed. But if a gun is in my Thunderwear or tshirt, let alone pocket, it's all exposed.

I know guns don't fire themselves. I know they supposedly are also drop-proof (but still feel skeptical about that.)

So, for sure, I don't understand the intersection between safety and holsters.

I've also been told that carry in sob is dangerous because you could end up paraplegic. Again...how is that unsafe, but in my pocket is safe??

Help?
 

Phoebe

New member
Geez! That guy on the Supertuck video is kind of hot. :eek:

But seriously, that looks like it might be a better choice than the Serpa. My clothes are rarely as baggy as Mr SuperTuck, but I can see how that does conceal nicely.
 
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