From the editorial page of this morning's Richmond (Va.) Times-Dispatch: Ouch of the Day: James Hoffa, president of the usually Democratic Teamsters union, on the presidential race: "No one in the political arena speaks stronger on the issues important to American working families than [Green Party candidate] Ralph Nader." John. That should stir things up some.
Hoffa likes Nader.
- Thread starter johnbt
- Start date
The Greens are much more aligned with labor than the democrats.
Now if we could just get the NRA to endorse candidates that are much more aligned with gun rights than the repulbicans, like, say . . . libertarians.
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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
Now if we could just get the NRA to endorse candidates that are much more aligned with gun rights than the repulbicans, like, say . . . libertarians.
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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
Anyone know the story on Nader and the greenpiece crowd, are they pro gun or anti?
Seems like I heard the green piece crowd are a bunch of fanatics on inviromental controls.
They fought running sea battles with world nations fishing ships. Stuff like cutting nets ramming fishing vessels.
Jim
Seems like I heard the green piece crowd are a bunch of fanatics on inviromental controls.
They fought running sea battles with world nations fishing ships. Stuff like cutting nets ramming fishing vessels.
Jim
Sorry, guys. They relegated me to this thread. So what do you think, can we shift the subject alittle and talk about Buchanan?
Ok, here's one. Nader said at the Green Party convention that he would like to see a 4-way debate. It's well known that he shares many of the concerns for American workers as Buchanan.
As for your question about guns, I heard a Green lady say on TV the other day that they don't have a platform on guns. They wouldn't comment on the party's position because they don't have a position. Perhaps no news from the party about guns is good news for gun owners.
Ok, here's one. Nader said at the Green Party convention that he would like to see a 4-way debate. It's well known that he shares many of the concerns for American workers as Buchanan.
As for your question about guns, I heard a Green lady say on TV the other day that they don't have a platform on guns. They wouldn't comment on the party's position because they don't have a position. Perhaps no news from the party about guns is good news for gun owners.
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
Seems to me there was a Green party legislator here in Sodom-on-the-Pacific who voted against the latest "assault weapon" ban because it didn't go far enough.
Thanks friend Oleg:
Me thinks I'm smelling the green and its a bit mouldy...turning into mulch. I thought those dudes and duddets were a little too hyped up to be normal folks. And if they won't give you a clear picture about their thinking on todays gun control and other forms of politcal oppression...then maybe they've got a few hidden ideas of their own that has the tag of oppression. I will be wary of this crowd. Guess we have to be wary of all political parties.
Me thinks I'm smelling the green and its a bit mouldy...turning into mulch. I thought those dudes and duddets were a little too hyped up to be normal folks. And if they won't give you a clear picture about their thinking on todays gun control and other forms of politcal oppression...then maybe they've got a few hidden ideas of their own that has the tag of oppression. I will be wary of this crowd. Guess we have to be wary of all political parties.
If you think Greens are bad, try the Grassroots crowd...once you get to someone who's not too stoned to talk to you, some devious plans become apparent. Neither Greens nor the Pot Party are pro-RKBA...and, unfortunately, Greens have some credibility.
BTW, I recently called an acquaintance to whom I have not spoken in four years...found out she raises funds for the Greens and got off the phone stat.
BTW, I recently called an acquaintance to whom I have not spoken in four years...found out she raises funds for the Greens and got off the phone stat.
Guys, I love the Greens! Finally, a 3rd party that takes votes from the Liberal Democrats, and not from the Republicans! It's great!
Talk up the Greens among your acquiantances that are normally serious Liberal Democrats. Chances are they'll never vote Republican, but you might get them to vote Green. Kind of like the Democratic activists get us to do with the Libertarians. Totally politically ineffective, except for siphoning off votes for the opposing side.
Heck, I've even considered sending them some money (finally joined GOA instead).
Talk up the Greens among your acquiantances that are normally serious Liberal Democrats. Chances are they'll never vote Republican, but you might get them to vote Green. Kind of like the Democratic activists get us to do with the Libertarians. Totally politically ineffective, except for siphoning off votes for the opposing side.
Heck, I've even considered sending them some money (finally joined GOA instead).
The Greens are anti-RKBA?
This is a no-brainer. Consider, if you will, that a corner-stone of the Green Party is Animal Rights. You can forget about hunting and fishing if they rise to power.
Furthermore, consider that the Green Party does not believe in private property. So you can forget about the right to own a gun (in the extreme case.)
The Greens would devuldge all power and sovereignty to the UN. No more sovereignty of the people. Probably the scariest part of their platform, in that they would do this, without maintaining any "veto power" to protect us from communistic tendancies.
Here are some specifics from : Green Party Platform
Jobs for All: A guaranteed right to job. Full employment through community-based public works and community service jobs programs, federally financed and community controlled.
Living Wages: A family-supporting minimum wage. Start at $12.50 per hour in 2000 and index to the cost of living.
30-Hour Work Week: A 6-hour day with no cut in pay for the bottom 80% of the pay scale.
A Proportional, Single-Chamber US Congress: Abolish the disproportional, aristocratic US Senate. Create a single-chamber US Congress, elected by a system of mixed-member proportional representation that combines district representatives elected by preference voting and party representatives seated in proportion to each party's vote.
Environmental Home Rule: Establish the right of every state, county, and municipality to restrict or prohibit the production, sale, distribution, storage, or transportation of any substance it designates as dangerous or toxic. (Say goodbye to gunpowder)
Environmental Defense and Restoration:
Full funding for anti-pollution enforcement and toxic sites clean-up
Preserve ecosystems and biodiversity by strengthening the Endangered Species Act and expanding areas designated as wildlife refuges and wilderness areas.
Ban old-growth logging, clear cutting, and strip mining.
End all commercial exploitation of public lands by private timber, mining, and cattle grazing interests.
Ban off-road vehicles on federal lands. Decommission National Forest logging roads.
Restoration of public lands degraded by commercial interests.
Manage federal lands primarily for ecosystem protection and restoration.
Support large-scale ecological restoration based on conservation biology.
Strengthen Anti-Trust Enforcement: Require breakup of any firm with more than 10% market share unless it makes a compelling case every five years in a public regulatory proceeding that it serves the public interest to keep the firm intact.
Eliminate Regressive Payroll Taxes: Fund Social Security, Health Care, Unemployment Insurance, and Workers Compensation out of progressive income and wealth taxes.
Guaranteed Adequate Income: Build taxable Basic Income Grants into the progressive income tax structure to create a Universal Social Security system that ensures everyone has income for at least a modest standard of living above the poverty line.
Maximum Income: Build into the progressive income tax a 100% tax on all income over ten times the minimum wage.
Oppose Tort Reform that Limits Class Action Lawsuits and Caps Victims' Compensation: The threat of high victim compensation awards by civil juries must be maintained as an important deterrent to corporate crime.
Civil Liberties: Support the Bill of Rights. No compromise on civil liberties and due process for "national security," "anti-terrorism," or "the war on drugs." Repeal the 1994 Crime and 1996 Anti-Terrorism bills. End domestic political spying by police, military, and intelligence agencies. (I encourage you to call and find out if they are for "common defense" or "standard model" interpratation of the 2nd Amendment.)
Unilateral Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Disarmament: These weapons of mass destruction have no place in a non-offensive military. The US should set the example and demand that other nations match our lead before the proliferation of weapons to countries around the world leads to mass destruction.
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This all took me 5 minutes to compile from their web site. It proves, amoung many scary things, that people of the Green Party were not paying attention over the past 200 years.
They cannot be allowed to obtain any power.
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
[This message has been edited by USP45 (edited June 26, 2000).]
This is a no-brainer. Consider, if you will, that a corner-stone of the Green Party is Animal Rights. You can forget about hunting and fishing if they rise to power.
Furthermore, consider that the Green Party does not believe in private property. So you can forget about the right to own a gun (in the extreme case.)
The Greens would devuldge all power and sovereignty to the UN. No more sovereignty of the people. Probably the scariest part of their platform, in that they would do this, without maintaining any "veto power" to protect us from communistic tendancies.
Here are some specifics from : Green Party Platform
Jobs for All: A guaranteed right to job. Full employment through community-based public works and community service jobs programs, federally financed and community controlled.
Living Wages: A family-supporting minimum wage. Start at $12.50 per hour in 2000 and index to the cost of living.
30-Hour Work Week: A 6-hour day with no cut in pay for the bottom 80% of the pay scale.
A Proportional, Single-Chamber US Congress: Abolish the disproportional, aristocratic US Senate. Create a single-chamber US Congress, elected by a system of mixed-member proportional representation that combines district representatives elected by preference voting and party representatives seated in proportion to each party's vote.
Environmental Home Rule: Establish the right of every state, county, and municipality to restrict or prohibit the production, sale, distribution, storage, or transportation of any substance it designates as dangerous or toxic. (Say goodbye to gunpowder)
Environmental Defense and Restoration:
Full funding for anti-pollution enforcement and toxic sites clean-up
Preserve ecosystems and biodiversity by strengthening the Endangered Species Act and expanding areas designated as wildlife refuges and wilderness areas.
Ban old-growth logging, clear cutting, and strip mining.
End all commercial exploitation of public lands by private timber, mining, and cattle grazing interests.
Ban off-road vehicles on federal lands. Decommission National Forest logging roads.
Restoration of public lands degraded by commercial interests.
Manage federal lands primarily for ecosystem protection and restoration.
Support large-scale ecological restoration based on conservation biology.
Strengthen Anti-Trust Enforcement: Require breakup of any firm with more than 10% market share unless it makes a compelling case every five years in a public regulatory proceeding that it serves the public interest to keep the firm intact.
Eliminate Regressive Payroll Taxes: Fund Social Security, Health Care, Unemployment Insurance, and Workers Compensation out of progressive income and wealth taxes.
Guaranteed Adequate Income: Build taxable Basic Income Grants into the progressive income tax structure to create a Universal Social Security system that ensures everyone has income for at least a modest standard of living above the poverty line.
Maximum Income: Build into the progressive income tax a 100% tax on all income over ten times the minimum wage.
Oppose Tort Reform that Limits Class Action Lawsuits and Caps Victims' Compensation: The threat of high victim compensation awards by civil juries must be maintained as an important deterrent to corporate crime.
Civil Liberties: Support the Bill of Rights. No compromise on civil liberties and due process for "national security," "anti-terrorism," or "the war on drugs." Repeal the 1994 Crime and 1996 Anti-Terrorism bills. End domestic political spying by police, military, and intelligence agencies. (I encourage you to call and find out if they are for "common defense" or "standard model" interpratation of the 2nd Amendment.)
Unilateral Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Disarmament: These weapons of mass destruction have no place in a non-offensive military. The US should set the example and demand that other nations match our lead before the proliferation of weapons to countries around the world leads to mass destruction.
-------------------
This all took me 5 minutes to compile from their web site. It proves, amoung many scary things, that people of the Green Party were not paying attention over the past 200 years.
They cannot be allowed to obtain any power.
------------------
~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
[This message has been edited by USP45 (edited June 26, 2000).]
mzanghetti
New member
The Green party is very much ANTI-RKBA. They (Nader) wants licensing and registration and a PERMANENT AW Ban. I wouldn't touch the Green Party with ANYTHING!!
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A Life Well Lived Is The Best Revenge!
http://home.earthlink.net/~mzanghe/index.html
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A Life Well Lived Is The Best Revenge!
http://home.earthlink.net/~mzanghe/index.html
For the sake of accuracy:
I heard Nader on NPR the other day. They gave him very nice coverage.
He said that the web site noted in USP45's post did not represent the platform of the Green Party, did not represent his views and that in fact the Green Party had not yet adopted a platform.
Apparently, this site has been giving him problems, as it presents itself as speaking for the their party. It does not.
I heard Nader on NPR the other day. They gave him very nice coverage.
He said that the web site noted in USP45's post did not represent the platform of the Green Party, did not represent his views and that in fact the Green Party had not yet adopted a platform.
Apparently, this site has been giving him problems, as it presents itself as speaking for the their party. It does not.
Hey CleanCut, watch that bit about "eating us like cactus". LOL!
The Green Party is a pure socialist party. It platform sounds very much like a detailed proposal of Karl Marx's "TO each according to their needs, FROM each according to their abilities."
Take a close look at their "Maximum Income" plank. They want to tax 100% of someones income over $250,000 a year (I wonder if that would include Ralph Nader's estimated net worth of four million dollars). This is pure wealth redistribution in the best (make that worst) communist tradition. This would destroy our economy and our nation. Why would anyone want to work hard and take risks if they knew everything over $250,000 would be taken by the government? If this had been in place 100 years ago, there would be no Ford Motors, no General Electric, no Boeing, no Microsoft and most other industries that America leads the world in. Talk about your "risky tax schemes".
They further say they want to support the Bill of Rights yet they call for the elimination of a property owners right to do what they wish with their property. They also wish to destroy the basic structure of our Constitution by eliminating the Senate and giving "proportional representation".
Ralph Nader has always been an anti-capitalist, pro big government regulation guy that frequently speaks out about the evils of "big business" and greedy rich people. Funny thing since most people would consider him rich!
One good thing though. By granting a "Guaranteed Adequate Income" upon retiring, I can quit saving money now for my wifes and my retirement and buy more guns, guided hunts and long vacations. That is if they still allow hunting and gun ownership!
As for this web site quoted here, did Nader happen to give the address for the "real" website? When searching for their website, this is the one I found also!
Everyone should ponder long and hard before considering a vote for Nader. This guy makes AlGore look downright Jeffersonian!
[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited June 26, 2000).]
The Green Party is a pure socialist party. It platform sounds very much like a detailed proposal of Karl Marx's "TO each according to their needs, FROM each according to their abilities."
Take a close look at their "Maximum Income" plank. They want to tax 100% of someones income over $250,000 a year (I wonder if that would include Ralph Nader's estimated net worth of four million dollars). This is pure wealth redistribution in the best (make that worst) communist tradition. This would destroy our economy and our nation. Why would anyone want to work hard and take risks if they knew everything over $250,000 would be taken by the government? If this had been in place 100 years ago, there would be no Ford Motors, no General Electric, no Boeing, no Microsoft and most other industries that America leads the world in. Talk about your "risky tax schemes".
They further say they want to support the Bill of Rights yet they call for the elimination of a property owners right to do what they wish with their property. They also wish to destroy the basic structure of our Constitution by eliminating the Senate and giving "proportional representation".
Ralph Nader has always been an anti-capitalist, pro big government regulation guy that frequently speaks out about the evils of "big business" and greedy rich people. Funny thing since most people would consider him rich!
One good thing though. By granting a "Guaranteed Adequate Income" upon retiring, I can quit saving money now for my wifes and my retirement and buy more guns, guided hunts and long vacations. That is if they still allow hunting and gun ownership!
As for this web site quoted here, did Nader happen to give the address for the "real" website? When searching for their website, this is the one I found also!
Everyone should ponder long and hard before considering a vote for Nader. This guy makes AlGore look downright Jeffersonian!
[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited June 26, 2000).]
Cactus (Senior Member):
Sorry, just pulled the word out of thin air, and now I've got the cactus's descending on me.
Well, I wouldn't give Karl Marx credit for the Green Party. That's a bit of a stretch, now isn't it? I think Nader said alot of things millions of other Americans who support RKBA support. Ever heard of a Reagan Democrat?
Healthcare, the environment, NAFTA, GAAT and worker's rights, these are issues that a lot of hunters and outdoorsmen support that aren'
t addressed by the Bush-Gore ticket. Quite frankly, I would like to see a Buchanan-Nader ticket, but I don't think that's too probable.
It's a good thing for Ralph Nader. Now, gun owners can feel more confident about the quality and safety of their firearms. Manufacturers as a whole are now more careful about the safety of products they sell because of Nader. You need SOME government. Who do you want running the nuclear industry, a bunch of accountants who only care about profits? That's the problem we have with HMO'S. It's all about money. What's happened to patient's rights?
Workers rights, healthcare, the environment, sovereignity, globalization,immigration, these are all issues millions of gun owners are concerned about, but not discussed by the media or the major parties.
Let's do as Hoffa says and have a 4-way debate. No great country elects leaders who ignore issues important to a majority of Americans.
Sorry, just pulled the word out of thin air, and now I've got the cactus's descending on me.
Well, I wouldn't give Karl Marx credit for the Green Party. That's a bit of a stretch, now isn't it? I think Nader said alot of things millions of other Americans who support RKBA support. Ever heard of a Reagan Democrat?
Healthcare, the environment, NAFTA, GAAT and worker's rights, these are issues that a lot of hunters and outdoorsmen support that aren'
t addressed by the Bush-Gore ticket. Quite frankly, I would like to see a Buchanan-Nader ticket, but I don't think that's too probable.
It's a good thing for Ralph Nader. Now, gun owners can feel more confident about the quality and safety of their firearms. Manufacturers as a whole are now more careful about the safety of products they sell because of Nader. You need SOME government. Who do you want running the nuclear industry, a bunch of accountants who only care about profits? That's the problem we have with HMO'S. It's all about money. What's happened to patient's rights?
Workers rights, healthcare, the environment, sovereignity, globalization,immigration, these are all issues millions of gun owners are concerned about, but not discussed by the media or the major parties.
Let's do as Hoffa says and have a 4-way debate. No great country elects leaders who ignore issues important to a majority of Americans.
No, Nader su*.
Let market forces dictate what manufacturers put on their cars. If you don't like how the Corvair handles, just don't buy it.
"But the consumers aren't smart enough to decide" hmm. . . .
I find it sick how they say they made the cars safer. The govt. also has the power to push the cars for "environmental" reasons. While safety features have been added, there is the compromise of making teh car safer in a crash while trying to shave weight off.
Healthcare - do you mean extorting money from voters to "redistribute the wealth"? You can look to other threads to see socialism/capitalism discussed.
The only good thing about Nader is that he'll suck votes away from Gore.
He's a Bolshievik - makes Gore look appealing!
Battler.
Let market forces dictate what manufacturers put on their cars. If you don't like how the Corvair handles, just don't buy it.
"But the consumers aren't smart enough to decide" hmm. . . .
I find it sick how they say they made the cars safer. The govt. also has the power to push the cars for "environmental" reasons. While safety features have been added, there is the compromise of making teh car safer in a crash while trying to shave weight off.
Healthcare - do you mean extorting money from voters to "redistribute the wealth"? You can look to other threads to see socialism/capitalism discussed.
The only good thing about Nader is that he'll suck votes away from Gore.
He's a Bolshievik - makes Gore look appealing!
Battler.
CleanCut,
I don't give Karl Marx credit for the Green Party (or Ralph Nader) either. Karl Marx was a Communist, Ralph Nader is a socialist, there is a difference.
I'm not quite sure what media or political candidates you are listening to, but I have heard much talk about the environment, health care, workers rights, etc from the major party candidates. Good grief, the environment is AlGore's pet issue, that's all he talks about. He even wrote a book about it!
Except for global trade issues, there is not much in common between the positions of George Bush and AlGore. As an aside, polls show that the majority of Americans support both candidates stance on trade.
What's wrong with an industry making a profit? That is the whole reason for their existance. Who wants to start a business only to lose money? This is the heart of the free enterprise system. No where have I ever stated that we need no government. I am a conservative, not an anarchist. However, unless it involves the security of our nation or the safety of its people, the federal government should stay out of the way when the private sector is capable of doing the work.
HMO's were the insurance company's response to the high cost of health care caused by governments interferance in the marketplace. The problem is that the government dictates to insurance companies that they must provide certain services and then they complain when the companies try to recoup their costs. Medicare demands that doctors provide services to the elderly yet will only reimburse 50% to 75% of the doctors costs. The doctors are then forced to pass the costs on to others. Patients go to the doctor for a common cold and then complain about their insurance premiums going up.
There may be problems with our medical system, but it is still the worlds finest. I don't see many Americans going to Canada for heart surgery, but many Canadians come here for care. The only thing that government can do for our medical care is make it more expensive and harder to get.
As for Gore and Bush participating in debates with Nader and Buchanan, why? The debates are a private affair, not a manditory event. If Nader and Buchanan should participate, why not Harry Brown of the Libertarian Party? Why not Howard Phillips of the American Taxpayers Party? Why not the Natural Law Party? The American Communist Party? The Socialists Workers Party? The Populist Party? And the gazillion other minor partys?
None of them have a chance, why should Gore and Bush waste time debating them?
[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited June 27, 2000).]
I don't give Karl Marx credit for the Green Party (or Ralph Nader) either. Karl Marx was a Communist, Ralph Nader is a socialist, there is a difference.
I'm not quite sure what media or political candidates you are listening to, but I have heard much talk about the environment, health care, workers rights, etc from the major party candidates. Good grief, the environment is AlGore's pet issue, that's all he talks about. He even wrote a book about it!
Except for global trade issues, there is not much in common between the positions of George Bush and AlGore. As an aside, polls show that the majority of Americans support both candidates stance on trade.
What's wrong with an industry making a profit? That is the whole reason for their existance. Who wants to start a business only to lose money? This is the heart of the free enterprise system. No where have I ever stated that we need no government. I am a conservative, not an anarchist. However, unless it involves the security of our nation or the safety of its people, the federal government should stay out of the way when the private sector is capable of doing the work.
HMO's were the insurance company's response to the high cost of health care caused by governments interferance in the marketplace. The problem is that the government dictates to insurance companies that they must provide certain services and then they complain when the companies try to recoup their costs. Medicare demands that doctors provide services to the elderly yet will only reimburse 50% to 75% of the doctors costs. The doctors are then forced to pass the costs on to others. Patients go to the doctor for a common cold and then complain about their insurance premiums going up.
There may be problems with our medical system, but it is still the worlds finest. I don't see many Americans going to Canada for heart surgery, but many Canadians come here for care. The only thing that government can do for our medical care is make it more expensive and harder to get.
As for Gore and Bush participating in debates with Nader and Buchanan, why? The debates are a private affair, not a manditory event. If Nader and Buchanan should participate, why not Harry Brown of the Libertarian Party? Why not Howard Phillips of the American Taxpayers Party? Why not the Natural Law Party? The American Communist Party? The Socialists Workers Party? The Populist Party? And the gazillion other minor partys?
None of them have a chance, why should Gore and Bush waste time debating them?
[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited June 27, 2000).]