Hk 416

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cheygriz

New member
Just watched "Future Weapons" on discovery channel. It seems thast HK is now making a " product improved" version of the M-16.:)

I guess all of the other designs are out the window, and they've finally realized that the M-16 platform is the world's wide "gold standard" and they've figured out that to stay in the market, they need an "improved" M16, instead of another design.:p
 
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Limeyfellow

New member
They weren't the first to do it either. They pretty much just introduced a piston based ar like 3 or 4 other companies have done. I guess the good thing about it is it can be mounted to any ar15 lower.
 
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tINY

New member


The brass doesn't want to replace all the rifles and magazines and spare parts and everything else all at once. They are spending the budget on other things.

The scaled-down AR-10 and varirations will be the issue rifle for a while.

Good to see the piston on an upper is finally a reality. That should cut down the cleaning requirements significantly.



-tINY

 
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Rob96

New member
Larry Vickers, retired Delta operator, noted 1911'smith and weapons engineer, played a key role in the development of the 416.
 
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HorseSoldier

New member
416s are already in service with some special operations units. I did not catch all of the Future Weapons bit on it, but the part I saw omitted its main claim to fame -- it runs fine at very short barrel lengths, which can be tricky with direct gas ARs.
 
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STLRN

New member
That should cut down the cleaning requirements significantly.
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Not really, since most of the cleaning is because of armory turn in requirements, not for purposes of functionality.
 
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USMCG_HMX1

New member
I've worked in the armories at both MCB Quantico and Camp Kinser, Okinawa, while I was in the Marines for unit service duties (it was better than guard duty or mess hall) and it's really not about armory turn-in requirements.

The direct gas system on the current AR/M4/M16A2 family makes for a dirty weapon. All the spent and unspent powder and fowling gets put right back into the upper and bolt carrier. Granted its not a perfect system but it works.

With the HK 416 upper the gas moves the piston which moves the bolt. I can see an advantage since none of the crud gets cycled back into the weapon, as it operates more like an AK/SKS.

I still think a shift to a larger round, perhaps in conjuction with this updated style of upper, should be considered for the service rifles in use.




Kris
 
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STLRN

New member
Yah, it is. If not you wouldn't see armorers doing things like taking a Q-tips to the pistol grip or checking under the heat shields of the hand guards, to make sure they were cleaned. It is all about annal retentiveness and old requirement to clean for 3 consecutive days following firing because of corrosive salts in the primers.

Field serviceability cleaning only takes a few minutes, the removal of all the carbon and dust/dirt from the system is because the armorers want it that way. The carbon doesn't cause rust have a long term impact on storage of the weapon. Dust on plastic and AL doesn't have any impact on the weapon at all.

I Remember the old days of pre-IG inspections when you would send the entire command to the armory for weeks cleaning, you went so far as scrubbing the hell out of them with some really harsh cleaners that actually caused unnecessarily wear to them.
 
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USMCG_HMX1

New member
I've never used a harsh cleaner for an IG. We always broke out a bottle of Joy or Dawn dish detergent and trash cans full of hot water. The whole weapon got the dunk treatment. We'd let the soap break down most of the gunk and garbage and then clean them till they're dry.

I've always passed on an IG doing this, and always under the supervision of the armorer.



If someone is using a harsh cleaner they need to beat with the weapon they've ruined.



Kris
 
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Duxman

New member
This is a fine weapon and its too bad us civilians will probably be waiting many years before we can get our hands on it. :confused:

C'mon HK - sell it us.
 
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STLRN

New member
Dish detergent is an unauthorized cleaning agent, the use of hot water (which is corrosive in itself) is also not authorized by Marine Corps Order. Both the -10 and the -23 states not to clean the weapon that way.

A couple years back people starting taking a look at what exactly was going in our armories. They came to a realization that allot of what was being done, was a waste of time and just because we always did it that way was not a reason to do anything.

I am sure you have at least once LCpl sitting there scrubbing the finish off his rifle that he hadn't fired on months because it was on the training schedule.
 
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HorseSoldier

New member
This is a fine weapon and its too bad us civilians will probably be waiting many years before we can get our hands on it.
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A small number of HK 416 uppers were somehow released for civilian sales "accidentally" in 05 or 06 (and HK apparently tried to get them back after the fact). I think they're going for upwards of $5000 (just the upper) if you can even find one at this point.

(M14) Want a big bore round in a reliable gas system, we already had it.
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The HK 416 is not a full power set up (HK 417 is the 308 version, I believe, and has either recently been released or will be soon). Could be set up for 6.8 Rem SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc, with minimal pain.

But no one at the decision making level (and, as far as I see every day, down at the troop level) has any enthusiasm for a return to general issue .308. It was a very poor idea in 1954 or when when US Army Ordnance forced it on NATO, and has not improved with time. The various .260-.280 intermediate cartridges are debatable, and offer some pluses and minuses, but .308 for anything more general than MG and DMR use just doesn't bring enough pluses to the table to offset the big minuses it carries as well.
 
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