Hillary with more socialist propaganda

tyme

Administrator
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070529/clinton_economy.html?.v=1

Presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton outlined a broad economic vision Tuesday, saying it's time to replace an "on your own" society with one based on shared responsibility and prosperity.

"I prefer a 'we're all in it together' society," she said. "I believe our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none."

"There is no greater force for economic growth than free markets. But markets work best with rules that promote our values, protect our workers and give all people a chance to succeed," she said. "Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

Yes, Hillary, we all know we're in this boat together, and the economic conservatives and social liberals among us libertarians accept that this boat is not in good shape.

I'm also willing to accept that socialism, even strict socialism bordering on communism, is nearly ideal from society's perspective.

However, there are these pesky things called individual consciousness and human psychology. When human societies implement socialist policies, the psychological impact is so traumatic that loss of productivity (and protests, riots, even rebellions) more than offset the overall social gains achieved by those socialist policies. I'll go so far as to say that socialist societies aren't even stable, because there's not enough economic output to sustain the massive governmental bureaucracies necessary to run them.

There's another problem -- one that we might someday overcome, but that day is not today or in 2009 or in 2021. We simply aren't smart enough, even collectively, to figure out which "rules that promote our values" we should implement. We know what our values are, but figuring out the ultimate effects of government policies is very, very difficult. We have no accurate model of society, just as we have no accurate model of the global climate. All we have are the shadows we can see on our cave walls. Basing government policies on those shadows when the issues are non-critical is beyond foolish.

A few Enrons aren't going to cause society to collapse. Individual investors and fund managers will just get smarter. Environmental changes will radically alter the ecosystem, but there are myriad causes of the ecosystem changes we see. Warmer oceans are only a part. There's no reason to believe we can't adapt our lives to changing ecologies. And forgive me if I don't get all panicky about the possibility of coastal megacities getting flooded. It's time states get smarter about urban planning, and sticking millions of people a mere few feet above sea level is not very smart. Large cities can be built inland; all that needs to be right smack on the coasts are shipping ports and supporting industries. And if a few people want to live on the coasts for a nice view of the ocean, fine. But they're on their own if the oceans rise or there's a tsunami.
 

MCCALL911

New member
I just wonder how many more examples of the failures of socialism/communism/Marxism we need before human society comes to the conclusion: "Hey! This this isn't gonna work!"
 

BillCA

New member
How to spot the trap in socialist sound bites;

"There is no greater force for economic growth than free markets. But markets work best with rules that promote our values, protect our workers and give all people a chance to succeed," she said. "Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

First, utter the words people like to hear - "free markets", democracy, freedom, etc. Then add the conjunction "But" or "however" or similar, followed by non-specific buzz phrases that sound good at the surface.

Promote our values - who's values? American values or Hillary's?
Give all people a chance to succeed - with special programs to "assist" non-white minorities.
Fairness doesn't just happen - especially not if you define "fairness" as taking 36% of my income to redistribute to others to start a business, while requiring me to find my own non-government funding.
The right government policies - i.e. more government is the solution to our problems, even when it is the cause of our problems.
 

Paladin7

New member
Fairness, thats a good one. Fairness is not a right of anyone, nor is it something anyone should expect in life.

All the world's documentation of the manifest failures of Socialism will never be enough stop people like Hillary Clinton. The reason is simple...Socialism, whether it works or not, is a great message.

Socialism promises bread and circuses to unthinking masses, while giving massive amounts of control to people like Hillary Clinton and her ilk.

Socialism is about control. And control of the masses is what Liberal Elites are ultimately all about.
 

Manedwolf

Moderator
I just wonder how many more examples of the failures of socialism/communism/Marxism we need before human society comes to the conclusion: "Hey! This this isn't gonna work!"

Well, we've had Lenin/Stalin, Chairman Mao, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong Il, and now Hugo Chavez...who is currently the darling of the leftists that are ignoring his blatant power grabs and abuses.

So I'd say nobody's learned a thing.
 

Geech

New member
Too bad she's going to be our next president, and with a sympathetic Congress to boot. I'm not looking forward to the policy coming out of the next administration, not even after 8 years of Bush and company.
 

Erebus

New member
and now Hugo Chavez...who is currently the darling of the leftists that are ignoring his blatant power grabs and abuses.
Just look at the news coming out of his country today. They have all the freedom of speech they want as long as it agrees with him. Or else he shuts them down.

Huge protests over a TV station that was shutdown for making anti-government statements.
 

Manedwolf

Moderator
He also said that he wanted to stop the soap operas because they were "immoral". I notice that the leftists are completely tuning that out.
 

armedandsafe

New member
Well, we've had Lenin/Stalin, Chairman Mao, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong Il, and now Hugo Chavez...

Why not start with the Plymouth Colony? They tried communism and found that free enterprise beat starving to death. Kinda brings it home, eh?

Pops
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
Regarding Hugo Chavez, he did just order 100,000 AK-103's from Russia a few months ago. I wonder what the socialist-excusers will say when they start being used on those who are declared to be "counterrevolutionary"?
 

paratrooper

New member
It seems that The Communist Party has it's best following in this country . I remember a few years ago one of the leaders upon being told of the monumental failures of Communism everywhere remarked that "So far it hasn't been led by the right people." If they ever shut their pie holes they will be de facto admitting defeat . By constantly trying they are in effect saying "It will work . Just watch." The terrible truth is that millions starve and are outright killed by it's failed implementation . After 30 or 40 or more millions they say "Oh well , we have to make a few changes ." The total downside to the whole deal is that all the power is held in the central committee and as we have learned through the ages "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
 

SecDef

New member
Regarding Hugo Chavez, he did just order 100,000 AK-103's from Russia a few months ago. I wonder what the socialist-excusers will say when they start being used on those who are declared to be "counterrevolutionary"?

Duh. Probably say guns should be banned? :D

I particularly love these threads with all the bashing for bashing sake without any actual facts. Comparisons to communism, etc. I guess Darwinism is only acceptable in the marketplace?

It's like if only there were enough posters, we could all form a circle and give each other backrubs. :barf:
 

Limeyfellow

New member
It is rather hard to find that healthy mix of Capitalism and Socialism that leads to society staying together. You go to far to either side you see troubling effects. One leads to workhouses and serfdom, the other to the worse excesses of communism and the state forcing itself on the people.
 

LightningJoe

New member
Ah, yes. Well, when you hand Z visas to 100 million 3rd worlders, they're going to need money, aren't they? Fortunately, you've got some. Now, you will share it.
 
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