High Powered Backup Weapons

D

Duxman

New member
Given the situations both in N. Hollywood and more recently in Tyler, Texas (where gunmen with assualt rifles and bulletproof vests) went out against civilians, I was wondering: How many of you folks carrying high powered backup weapons in your vehicle? (And if so, what kind of weapon)

Plus has anyone thought of hidden compartments in your cars to carry such weapons? The twin HK UMP's in the back seat of the Ferrari in Bad Boys 2 looked great, as well as the hide behind the baby seat shotgun in Wanted Dead or Alive come to mind.

I personally was thinking of a .44 magnum with a red dot scope. Should do very well for armor piecering capacity and range for those nasty AK's.
 
S

SpectreBlofeld

New member
After seeing that my friend's CZ-52 would do in terms of penetration using the 7.62 by 25 Tokarev round, I plan on picking one up at some point. At around $115, it's certainly affordable.
 
D

Dwight55

New member
Sorry, Duxman, . . .

I'd vote against it. My SA .45 is plenty enough fire power for any situation I should encounter short of a terrorist situation.

The LEO's in LA were just overgunned by their own brass, . . . and that has changed there (I understand) and here in Ohio, . . . both with weaponry and tactics. Bg shot up a bar here a few months ago, . . . LEO on the scene with an 870, gave the bg 9 ea 00 buck pellets in the face, . . . end of problem.

The civilian in Texas (according to today's news anyway) shot him center mass twice but bg had on kevlar and a flak jacket. Civilian didn't have his act in gear and got killed. From what we were able to glean, . . . probably double tapped the bg then looked up to see what the effect was. Got killed for that mistake.

If you ever engage a perp holding a long gun with your hand gun, . . . first off you are being rather ignorant, . . . and second off, . . . you better be going for slide lock and reaching for a second magazine while you do it. Bg has every advantage possible except maybe for your first surprize shot. Bad idea.

But I digress, . . . .45 ACP with two magazines should get you through any normal situation any of us are likely to engage (and live through) and give you ammo to get home on. Leaving a long gun in an unattended vehicle will sooner or later become public knowledge, . . . and your vehicle will be broken in to, . . . your weapon gone, . . . and it will be a bad guy who now has you outgunned. Another bad idea.

Anyway, may God bless,
Dwight
 
A

abelew

New member
Depends on your situation. I know that after that bank robbery, a lot of cops were issued, or allowed to carry ar15's, which would penetrate. I plan to do that, so that I have an option if I run into that kind of situation. Also, hitting him with a slug from a .44 mag, FMJ, preferably with a pointy tip (if there is such a thing) would probably net reliable results. Even if it didn't penetrate, it would still hurt like a SOB
 
J

Jungle Work

Moderator
Only Sergeants, Lieutenants and SWAT are allowed to Carry M-16s in the patrol units in good ol' El A. Patrolmen are still hangin' out to dry.

It is not considered good form to engage perps with superior firepower to yous in most LE Circles. There are time to lay dog or to ambush the BG and there are times to didi mau the AO.

I would be hard pressed to actively egage a person with a scope sighted semi auto rifle if all I was in possession of was a pistol, no matter the caliber.
It's a tough deal when you're trying to protect other folks. This is the reason that I believe Mark Wilson is one of the True Heros of the State of Texa and should be recoginzes as such. Too bad it's not part of the News Media's Agenda.

Jungle Work
 
D

Dwight55

New member
Any of you know about any fund set up for Mr. Wilson's family?

How about an address where we could send cards?

I think it would be very appropriate from those of us who truly do appreciate his sacrifice.

Thanks, may God bless,
Dwight
 
T

too many choices!?

New member
ar pistol or sks or ak, any of these with a scope(red dot)

and a couple of 'nanna clips if applicable ;) !

PS You guys are right! If the media won't cover this voluntarily, we should make it "news worthy" by our response :) !.....
 
M

Malamute

New member
So, it sounds like some feel that if the BG has any gun that they percieve of as "superior" then they will just run and hide, or go home and do nothing? Particularly if they are afraid to carry any other weapon in their vehicle because of the possibility it MAY be stolen?

Cooper made a good point about "outgunned" being a state of mind, not "firepower". If you THINK you are "outgunned" or the other guy has "superior firepower" then you have lost the fight before it begins. He went on to relate how Butch O'hare flew into a formation of Japanese fighter bombers that had "superior firepower" with his puny several 50 cal brownings to their numerous machine guns and cannons. He managed to shoot several of them down before running out of ammo. He was "outgunned" by the mentality expressed above, but there isn't any evidence he wet his pants over it and went home to stay safe. Quite the contrary.


I always have a Winchester carbine in my vehicle, and sometimes a 30-06 scoped bolt gun. Insurance will cover them if they get stolen.

From Coopers Commentaries Vol 5, No 5:

"Remember the axiom that you are only "outgunned" if you miss. Only the old-timers among us remember the deserved adulation heaped upon Butch O'Hare, after whom the Chicago airport is now named. In his magnificent exploit he was the only Navy fighter plane available in the air when nine Japanese Betty's were observed in attack formation heading for the Lexington battle group. These Betty's were twin-engined medium bombers with rifle caliber machineguns forward and sideward, plus a 20mm automatic cannon as a tail stinger. The Nip formation was a V of V's flying very close together and protecting each other with their own guns. O'Hare was flying an F4F-3 armed with four 50-caliber Brownings and packing 200 rounds per gun. In plain sight he tore into that Jap formation and destroyed five bombers before he ran out of ammunition and the fight broke up.

Let our current handwringing journalists observe that he was not "outgunned."
 
Last edited:
J

Jungle Work

Moderator
Sometimes, just because that's the situation that you find yourself in, "You have to dance with the one you brought to the Dance".

Sometimes you figure out that the one you brought to the dance is really ugly, but she's the one you're going to have do dance with anyway.

That's the reason we call men who are caught up in situations where they have to dance with ugly women in situations that they know they can be killed, HEROS. Mark Wilson and the Peace Officers of Tyler Texas are True Heros.
I have always believed that it is better to live one second as a Hero than a thousand years as a coward.

Jungle Work
 
D

Double Naught Spy

New member
Sorry, Duxman, . . .

I'd vote against it. My SA .45 is plenty enough fire power for any situation I should encounter short of a terrorist situation.
Click to expand...

You know, Mark Wilson thought his .40 would be enough and that is what he grabbed from his apartment as he went outside to investigate the shots he heard, then participate, then die.

He may be a hero, but he is a dead hero and his pistol wasn't enough. A .45 acp against a vest would have performed worse.
 
M

Malamute

New member
An accurate pistol is able to make head shots fairly far out, unfortunately most people don't practice this sort of shooting, and when faced with the sudden need, aren't able to pull it off.

I've heard some say it simply can't be done, even when not under stress. I know that some pistols are able to do it tho. I've seen under 3" groups @ 46 yards shot with a Smith revolver, and 6" groups shot @ 100 off the hood of a truck with a Smith 29. The guns can do it.

I guess it's easy for all of us to analyze the situation from a distance, I just hate to see folks say "it cant be done" or that it was hopeless. I think Mark Wilson did the right thing by getting involved, and am sorry he was murdered for his efforts.
 
J

joab

New member
After seeing that my friend's CZ-52 would do in terms of penetration using the 7.62 by 25 Tokarev round, I plan on picking one up at some point. At around $115, it's certainly affordable.
Click to expand...
If you like that check out the "armour piercing" .223 Timbs
 
W

Walter

New member
A flak jacket is designed to protect the torso from flying shrapnel from
explosive devices, grenades, etc.
A bulletproof vest is designed to stop the penetration of a bullet fired from
a gun.
The flak jackets we wore in Viet Nam had fiberglass panels in them. They
would stop small shrapnel, I doubt they would stop a moderately high
velocity handgun round like a .40S&W or a .357.

Walter
 
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
Malamute,

Head shots sound real good until you try to make one on a real (moving) person who's trying to kill you with a rifle.

My guess is that there are very few people with the skill and nerve required to score a head shot under those conditions unless the range is near pointblank. Across the street? Forget it.
 
S

smince

Moderator
Head shots sound real good until you try to make one on a real (moving) person who's trying to kill you with a rifle. My guess is that there are very few people with the skill and nerve required to score a head shot under those conditions unless the range is near pointblank. Across the street? Forget it.
Click to expand...

Right on! The modern failure drill is to shoot for the pelvic region, instead of the head. Many blood vessels/arteries/nerves, plus a shattered pelvic bone usually may not take someone out of the fight, but it will certainly affect their mobility.

As for carry of higher power weapons, there is usually an 870 with 10 rounds of OOBuck and 10 rounds slugs in a case in my Cherokee. Along with my usual carry gear (handgun, spare mag, Surefire 6P) my vehicle also contains 4-D cell Maglite, Cold Steel Tanto, well-equipped first-aid kit, along with the usual tools, spare tire, etc. Sometimes I carry a rifle or my Mechtech .45ACP CCU.
Lockable case, secured to the floor, covered by one of the window shade type covers. Not perfect, but what is?

I am just a CCW holder, not LE, but back-up may be farther away from me than Motorola.
 
E

E.L.

New member
Mark was shooting a 1911 .45 that day, not a .40. When he saw Maribel (whom I knew) and her son getting gunned down he did the right thing, it might not have been the "smart thing" that the arm chair Quarterbacks thought he should have done. He did what he could with what he had. 99% of the time the perps are not armed, if so he would still be with us.

I wonder what a .357 SIG would do against the combination of the flak jacket and bullet-proof vest. I have seen that round punch through body armor that stopped everything from a 9mm, .45, .357 Mag. and others. I saw it first hand at the firing range that Mark Wilson used to own, it was performed by a former DEA instructor who wanted to show the power of the then new cartridge. I am wondering now if maybe I shouldn't throw the ol' 30-30 behind the seat. My AR is a bit cumbersome, as it has a heavy H-Bar barrel and doesn't come to the shoulder near as quick. Plus, the 30-30 is cheap, so if it gets stolen no big deal. It is something to consider.
 
H

Hawgleg44

New member
There seems to be an attitude here that if a gun is stolen it's cheap and no big deal or insurance will cover it. How about responsibility here? Any lawfully owned gun falling into criminal hands works against us law abiding citizens.

And, you are lucky in other parts of the country. Here in MA, if you have a gun stolen from your vehicle, you can lose your LTC for it. It's completely legal to leave a firearm unattended in a MV now, as long as it's unloaded and in a locked case. But, anti-gun police chiefs have used a stolen firearm as an excuse to call you an "unsuitable person" and pull your permit because you were irresponsible and left a gun unattended.

Welcome to MA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top