High Density Powders for 38, 44 etc.

[PolarFBear]

What has the Forum's members found in the way of powders that REALLY fill up pistol brass? I have experienced one double charge using my Dillon 550B. It was my fault, lack of attention from an interruption. I usually use W231, that was the double charger. But I have used Bullseye, Unique and recently Trail Boss. Even T/B leaves a lot of space in a 44 shell. I just load for "paper punching". Thanks.

 

[mikejonestkd]

Trail Boss is about as good as you are going to get to a full case in the 44 mag. For the 38 special you'll run out of case capacity quickly, Trail Boss is more than sufficient.

 

[jwrowland77]

Unique will fill up a case.

 

[scatterbrain]

38 Special, 357 Mag, 41Mag & 44 Mag

50 years ago I wanted the same thing, mostly full case, not to much pressure, and good groups. The antique reloading books that we used recommended 2400 with a mag primer. If we would have had the internet we would have known not to have tried 2400. I recently went back through my notes (fifty years worth) to see and is all I have ever used for 146 and 158 jacketed bullets in my 38's. Yea, I still use my books.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I have experienced one double charge.

I'm curious what was the result of said double charge?

This is one of the reasons (aside from money and space) why I don't go progressive. I really like holding my loading block (holds 50) under a strong light to check the charge level of each and every case.

 

[1100 tac]

3Fg will really fill up a case and is more powerful and accurate than you would think. Cleaning takes a little while though.

 

[skizzums]

4227 is the biggest I know of, and it's a great powder. but will not yield velocities of other mag powders, it's my go-to. it's also the one that you can usually find in the shelves.

2400 may well be fluffier, I don't know, I have never strayed from hodgdon/win/IMR

 

[Nick_C_S]

I have never created a load recipe with powder volume fill as a consideration.

I load with a purpose. I choose a bullet; a velocity range; and then the propellant that will do the job with sufficient operating pressure - with no regard to its density.

Many of my rounds are so light that a triple charge would not fill the case. Fear of a double charge is never going to be a factor in my load workups. Having a powder fill of over 50% is not a "purpose."

 

[PolarFBear]

For Nick_C_S, double charge

Nick_C_S; I was using W231 loading lightly for 38 Specials. I load for my wife and daughters plus I find a "gentle" 38 fun when punching paper. I was using 158 Gr lead wad cutters. I load (at least at that residence) in the basement. That day I was using the Dillon 550B, and either someone came to the "dungeon" to check on me or I dropped my attention and double charged. I DO LOOK at the powder levels before seating a bullet at station #3 but I goofed. At the indoor range it was bang, bang, B_OOO_M. The revolver was a S&W 640. Fortunately it was rated for Magnum loads. I am sure I exceeded that level. Had I been shooting my very comfy Rossi 685 I would probably have had a shrapnel event. Opening the crane was difficult. Ejecting with the ejector was a no go. It took a "pounding" to dislodge the shell. I could not see any damage. So I tried another re-load. This time the crane opened as normal but ejection took another "whack". On inspection of the cylinder I could just see a "wrinkle" in the affected chamber. I tried to measure the bulge with a caliper but just was not proficient enough. Sent the unit back to S&W. They repaired at a fair cost. I now keep that Cylinder right in front of me on the reloading bench as a reminder. I have a Lee three hole turret that I started on. Loaded many hundreds (probably thousands) of rounds of various calibers on it. Stepped up to a Lee Pro 1000 and got it to work OK with the usual tinkering. Then moved on to a Lee Loadmaster. Again, it worked but only after extreme frustration. Finally; I came upon the Dillon. I set reloading aside for a couple of years while I experienced some "marital" discord. Now, taking up the hobby again I have tried to use the Lee progressives and find the Dillon just so much easier. My eyesight has faded over these few years where I just can no longer see the "offending" problem makers on the Lee's. My new press location is on a proper bench with the Dillon riser and a good light that almost shines directly in the cases. Can anyone offer experience with those press lights that I see on Ebay? I admit that using the old fashioned Lee is a pretty foolproof activity but do enjoy the progressive. Oh, I did upgrade the first three hole Lee to a four holer but could NEVER get it to index except by hand. Cheers.

 

[Nick_C_S]

PolarFBear, that must have been quite an event. Magnum rated or not, a J-frame 640 mostly-surviving such an event is really quite a testament to their strength. I'm thinking the bullet broke crimp and went past the barrel/cylinder gap before maximum pressure. Otherwise, it wouldn't have gone nearly as well.

I load/shoot more 38 Special target level rounds than any other. I load a lot of 158's with W231. My go to ICORE round is 3.9gns. Yields about 780 f/s. A double charge would easily fit in the case.

We all load in fear of the dreaded double-charge. It's probably safe to say that you're even more acute to it than most of the rest of us. My recommendation is rather than concern yourself with case fill level (and I'm sure Trailboss is a fine powder - not knocking it. Unique was also mentioned - great powder, but too slow for your application.), focus on creating a loading regimen for yourself that ensures that each case is properly filled. . . However you gotta do that. I don't load on a progressive, so I can't help beyond that.

I love punching holes in paper and cardboard too. My recoil junky days are over. Like you, I much prefer the tame target 38 round in my more advanced years too. I'd never let the fear of a double charge stop me from loading.

 

[TimSr]

This is one of the reasons (aside from money and space) why I don't go progressive. I really like holding my loading block (holds 50) under a strong light to check the charge level of each and every case.

Amen to that!


296/110 fills cases. Of course a full case of magnum powder gives you a full magnum load.
Blue Dot fills 9mm cases.
Thats not why I use them.

For general target loads, you typically use low charges of fast powder that never come near to filling the case. Trail Boss is the exception. I'm just a cheapskate who can't come to terms with buying a powder that is 3/4 filler to keep me from making a mistake that can be prevented by doing exactly as Nick has mentioned above.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I went to Trail Boss in my .44 Special simply because the charge of 231 was so miniscule that I was having ignition problems.

A double charge of Trail Boss in just about any weight in any case is going to be very close to, if not completely, overflowing the case.

 

[sawdustdad]

The auto indexing feature of the Square Deal press is one reason I continue to use it (and recently purchased a second). 50,000+ rounds and no mis-charges.

Second the use of Trail Boss in large (.44spl/.45LC) case low pressure applications. Though I do like Red Dot, too!

 

[RKG]

Not to be a nitpicker (OK, maybe just a little), but powders like TrailBoss are not "high density," but rather comparatively low density. Powder density is merely weight divided by volume, typically in units of g/cc.

On the other hand, the term "load density" is often used to denote the fraction of case volume (after seating a bullet) that is occupied by powder. There is a debate as to whether high load density contributes to round consistency.

So "low density" powders contribute to "high load density" rounds.

Whew!

 

[T. O'Heir]

Forget about it. It's not an issue.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Not to be a nitpicker (OK, maybe just a little), but powders like TrailBoss are not "high density," but rather comparatively low density. Powder density is merely weight divided by volume, typically in units of g/cc.

RKG, I was thinking the same thing

 

[FrankenMauser]

4227 (any flavor).

 

[griz]

It's been said already but it's going to be hard to find a "fluffier" powder than Trail Boss. You may have a little space left in the case with a normal load, but I don't think you could get enough in the case to do damage to the gun.