Hey ! reloaders... super clean 44 mag factory loads... what do you supposed they used

[Magnum Wheel Man]

had my retired buddy give me about 600 44 mag cases... some reloaded a couple times, some once fired, & some new "old stock" 60-70's Remington cases still in the original boxes...

running the fired cases through my de-capper prior to wet tumbling, I noticed a couple boxes of older Federal once fired, looked amazingly clean... yup... still needed tumbled IMO ( but I like my cases shiny & new looking ) but I'd like to hear what some of the guesses would be for powder & primers they used... much less residue in the primer pockets than typical, & the insides of the cases looked about as clean as the outsides, very little soot either inside or outside the case... bullets were originally jacketed 240 grain bullets... boxes were the old red & white Federal boxes... over all they were remarkably clean cases compared to nearly anything I've ever prepped for reloading ( & I've been doing this a long time )

Primers ??? I think Federal makes there own, I'm not sure when they started, & I don't recall ever seeing large pistol magnum ( though I'm sure that's because to date the only Federal Primers I go out of my way to look for are large rifle magnum )

Powder ??? I can't think of anything I use that would have burned that clean ???

 

[MarcB]

Federal used numerous powders so it would be hard to find out. For a while they were using Hodgon powder. If I had to guess I would think H110 was the powder. It sure burns clean in my 44's. If you have an extra live round, pull the bullet and at least you'll know what type of powder was used.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

all these were fired... I do have the original boxes with the lot number stamped on them... that's the best I could do there...

 

[jimbob86]

Federal used numerous powders so it would be hard to find out. For a while they were using Hodgon powder. If I had to guess I would think H110 was the powder. It sure burns clean in my 44's.

H110 burns clean for me at the top end ..... start loads were pretty sooty.

If you have an extra live round, pull the bullet and at least you'll know what type of powder was used.

You'll know what it looks like, and can make a judgement on what cannister powder you are familiar with that it is not, but since you don't have access to all the powder that they do, you can't be sure just what it is just by looking at it.

 

[spacecoast]

Here's an idea for an enterprising commercial reloader - print the load information right on the box.

 

[jimbob86]

Bad Plan.

Here's an idea for an enterprising commercial reloader - print the load information right on the box.

Ummmm..... not really- Why do the R&D on your product and then put the recipe on the box so somebody else can copy it and make their own, and cheaper because they don't have to pay for shipping, sales and use tax, liability insurance, or your profit margin.

....and you's still need the liability insurance to pay a rabid pack of Lawyers to defend yourself from the idjits out there that used your recipe on your box in cobination with their questionable loading practices and damaged themselves or others ......

 

[spacecoast]

It doesn't take a lot of R&D to put 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind a 148 gr. wadcutter. The people who reload already know how to look up that information and work up their own loads. I think a lot of people who don't reload but are willing to buy commercial reloads would look in favor on a manufacturer who published their load info.

 

[jimbob86]

The people who reload already know how to look up that information and work up their own loads.

Those are not the people to worry about from a liability standpoint: they already have the manuals and have likely read them.

The guy you'd have to worry about is that guy that does not reload, and won't read the chapters of cautions in the manuals- he'll see that 2.8 gr Bullseye 38 special load on your box (which does not have room to explain all the cautions or even the basic processes, run out and get a Lee Loader with a dipper, without ever checking the actual weight he is dipping (likely short) and make a squib. He'll get a Lawyer to sue you, and Lee and your Grandmother's dog on a contingency basis. You'll almostcertainly win, but it'll cost you time and money. Who needs that?

Or maybe he'll get it right ...... and now he makes his own 38 Special wadcutter load instead of buying yours. You just went to extra effort and expense to lose a paying customer. Why would you do that?

This is why the folks that print load data are, for the most part, in the business of selling components ....... Hornady does sell loaded ammo as well, but they are not putting the recipe on the boxes. There's a financial reason for that, I'm sure, because they are a business.

 

[mikld]

I would think Federal ammo would use Federal primers As far as powder goes, I understand commercial ammo uses a proprietary blend of powders to achieve a certain pressure/burn in a specific cartridge. Most powders I'm aware of will burn clean at the upper end of their pressure range (but, of course, still within safe operating pressures), and lower loads will burn sootier/dirtier...

But, I really don't bother with "clean burning" aspect of powder, as I reload for the component's performance Besides, I don't wear my white tux when I go shootin'...

 

[Ozzieman]

Federal does make their own primers and I buy them any time I see them for sale.
For now I use Winchester because they are marked for mags or normal.
For clean I agree with others for mag loads the upper end of H110 or 4227 works for me. For plinking W231 but you have to make sure its heavy enough to expand the case so it seals against the chamber.
You’ll get a lot of people that bad mouth Federal cases. I like them and have several hundred 44 special that have been loaded close to 10 times and the primers are still tight.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I agree on the performance, & I have no idea how this ammo actually performed, but I've just never seen such clean cases in the 16-17 years I've been shooting & reloading... normally I'd say they must have been at least high enough pressure to seal the case, as the outsides are clean... but with the insides so clean, I have no way of knowing ???

 

[Nick_C_S]

It has been my observation that once-fired Federal brass is noticeably cleaner than other brands. Especially the primer pockets (Federal primers, it's safe to say).

But that's about the most mental energy that I've invested in the phenomenon. I tumble with the others and move on.

 

[buck460XVR]

Do you know for sure they weren't tumbled before you got them? I get used brass and old reloading supplies from all kinds of folks just cause they know I reload and they have no use for it. Very few of them know anything about it and most times I don't trust the boxes they come in as a reference, unless verified by the original owner. Even then I don't trust my firearms to their memory. Had a old fart give me a pail full of .38 brass he said was decapped and cleaned. Problem was it had been cleaned 15 years ago and was as tarnished as any I have ever found on the ground. Then again, I have pulled brass outta the garbage can at the range and would swear they had never been fired. Don't matter to me, I treat them all the same and load them with what works best in my guns....whether it shoots clean or not. Many commercial ammo makers use proprietary or blended powders unavailable to handloaders. While I have been successful matching performance of factory ammo, I have never known what the factory powders were.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Ammunition companies virtually always use non cannister powders to load factory ammunition.

As such, we generally can't get it; we can only get the baselined, blended cannister powders that companies sell.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BUCK... I'm 99 + % sure it hasn't been tumbled the guy I got it from, doesn't own a tumbler, & there was no media found in flash hole etc. in the 100 cases I processed... plus if they had been "washed" with the primers in, the pockets would show that...

I had shot some 357 Magnum ammo of that era ( back then, & as a newer reloader ) & never noticed the abnormally clean cases...

if this 44 mag ammo performed well, back when it was shot, it was an exceptionally good combination...

 

[mjes92]

Fed 9mm primer pockets

I made the same obsorvation on factory Federal 9mm primer pockets after test firing factory rounds against my reloads. The Fed factory primers pockets were amazingly clean compared to Win, Rem, and my reloads.

WHY ???