Hesse Arms

Shin-Tao

New member
I'm looking at these rifles over at joeken.com and I see a collection of low-priced AR-15s that are said to have carbon fibre receivers. Anyone know anything about these?

I am in the market for an AR-type rifle right now, (anything with an AR magwell actually) and these look tempting.

What does this council say?
 

HankB

New member
Hesse Arms is not considered to be be among the "best" manufacturers of AR15 clones. Hesse is generally held in MUCH lower regard than Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colt.
 

dZ

New member
the short fiber aramids blown into the plastic mold are marketing hype not structural engineering

IMHO, Hesse's previous QC and customer service, has damaged the company's future

in 1999 Hesse built 606 AR15s
Bushmaster made 64,500

in 2000 Hesse built 967
Bushmaster made 40,000

How does Hesse under cut Bushmaster's price by 250 dollars?
 

bastiat

New member
I think this might be a fair description of what a lot of people believe to be true:

Hesse is to Busmaster or Armalite
as Lorcin is to Sig Sauer or Glock

But with more laughing while they say it. ;)
 

Don Gwinn

Staff Emeritus
I asked about their .50 a few days ago. The consensus was to run, not walk, away. I had always heard bad things about Hesse, but I didn't realize they had such a reputation for being downright unsafe. There seems to be no telling which part will fail first.

Over on AR15.com a guy recently posted about a short AR he built on a Hesse lower. On the SECOND round out of the gun, the lower broke around the retaining pin! Bad casting or something, but man alive! :eek:
 

Shin-Tao

New member
Oh, my!

So I stumbled across THE worse AR clone maker in the industry?

Ok guys. Here's the deal. I have a lot of .223 and AR accessories. I have no AR, as I am generally not in favour of the design. I want a carbine that uses these AR magazines I have, but I am not going to pay $799 and more for a basic .223 carbine that I really don't have a strong passion for. I don't want crome this, or custom fitted that, or match grade anything, and I don't say MOA on a regular basis. So what AR maker has what I am looking for?

Help!
 

bastiat

New member
I a gree, it sounds like the ar180b has what you are looking for. I believe they are shipping now. There is a review over at cruffler.com
 

Steve Smith

New member
AR-180b has one problem. Optical sight attachment. Currently, it has the original design attachment point, but Armalite tole me at the Shot Show that they'd have a different attachment method in about a year. Hmm...
 

Don Gwinn

Staff Emeritus
AR-180B has a bigger problem--Armalite is currently backordered to February. The rep at the BRC said it will probably be about three years before dealers have stock sitting on the shelf. Other than that, an excellent rifle at a great price.

I think what you want, Shin-Tao, is the Olympic Arms "Plinker" model. It uses a cast upper and lower receiver, so the finish is not as nice as the forged ones, but it costs right around $500-$550. As near as I can tell, the only real difference is the finish. The castings might not be as robust as forgings, but with aluminum pieces under no more stress than that, I imagine it's a negligible difference. I only found out about it this week, but I think that's what I'm getting. I had a little AR sticker shock too! ;)

The Cav Arms guns are very nice from what I've seen (I only saw 'em at the BRC) and Cav Arms is a great company of great guys. I'm not sure what the weight savings would be over an ordinary lower, but it would have to be some.

I didn't know Hesse offered carbon fiber, but I've heard really bad things about their "kevlar" models. People say the stupid things shrink and expand during manufacturing and end up way out of spec. With everything I found while looking into the .50, I would never spend money on a Hesse product.
 

Don Gwinn

Staff Emeritus
Yeah, that describes me pretty well. I just never had much use for a rifle--can't hunt with it, can't shoot it around here without joining somebody's highfalutin' club. But the local range is adding a 50-yard rifle backstop, which is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, and the BRC made me think I might as well have an AR15.

Thanks for the link!

EDIT: And I see Shin didn't need me to tell him about it. Oh well!
 

Shin-Tao

New member
The Cav Arms plastic lowers look really interesting. But I think I'll go for the "Plinker" from Olympic. No I have to go through the BS of getting my local FFL to cooperate.
 

JIH

New member
How does Hesse under cut Bushmaster's price by 250 dollars?
$250 less product in the rifle.

Lesser materials.
Lesser processing.
Lesser QA/QC. (They CAN'T be QCing. There's just no way they can miss some of the things they miss... like HAMMERS)

Guess you can say it's lesser.
 
Hesse SS receiver: pivot pin hole is offset and pivot pin head had to be ground so it would fit and hold upper & lower together. You pay less and get less. Go with BM, Oly, AR or DPMS. Either of these four has better QC.
 
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