help me load 223 ammo

[NCHornet]

Ok y'all I need some help. I have reloaded pistol calibers for years but I have never done any rifle. I just purchased my first AR and I have about 4,000 pieces of 223 brass that I want to reload. I know I will need to buy a case trimmer. I planned on just using the cheap Lee trimmer that you can put in a cordless drill. I have heard good things about them. I will also buy some case lube, probably dillon. The press I have is a old Dillon, forgot the name or model, but it is the progressive one before they came out with interchangeable tool heads. It's a oldy but a goody.
I relaize I will need a set of three dies, do y'all recommend carbide or steel. I have carbide for all my pistol calibers but they ain't cheap for carbided rifle dies.
The rifle I bought has a 1n7 twist so I can shoot a heavier bullet. What would be a good bullet weight and load to start out with? Also if any of you have a recommendation on a type of bullet and where I can get a good deal buying 1,000 sized lots of them. Do I want a .223 or .224 diameter bullet? Any other help you want to throw my way would be appreciated.
Thanks
Kevin

 

[dodge]

You'll want the .224 diameter bullet as the .223 diameter is for the older 22 Hornets that were made with this diameter barrel. For dies you only need a 2 die set and it will be steel as bottle necked cases won't work with a carbide die. I use the Lee trimmer and although maybe a little slower than some of the other ones on the market it does a pretty good job just make sure you use the cutter that has the ball on it so you can hold on to it.

 

[Wibb]

To my knowlegde there isn't a set of carbide rifle dies. You should buy a set of "small base" full length dies. The small base dies are for semi-auto rifles. You will need a case trimmer, you can try the Lee, but if you have 4000 rounds, I'd bet that you'll find it cumbersome after awhile to trim every case. Lyman makes a great trimmer with a universal shell holder and all you need are the pilots. They have a drill adapter for it as well. You will also need a reamer for the inside and outside of the brass once trimmed. As far as bullets go, it really depends (in my mind anyway) on what you will be shooting. Are you going to be plinking or trying to shoot 600 yard targets? If you are plinking I'd look at a 55 gr. bullet or maybe a 52 gr. If you are planning on more long range shooting, looking into a 69gr or 77 gr, or even 80gr. You will have to load the 80 gr. rounds one by one as they won't fit into your magazine. As far as where to get them, that is a crapshoot with metal prices. I live in Missouri and shoot primarily Sierra bullets. When my supply gets low I make a trip to Sedalia where there plant is and buy their "seconds" in bulk. To make it worth my trip down I have to spend $500 or $600. Your best source may be a local reloading shop if you have one. There is probably something I am forgetting but I can't think of it right now.


Just some tips:

** Make absolutely sure that you lube every case and the inside of the case necks with either a brush or some mica. If you don't, you'll probably be posting on here trying to get your stuck case out of the die.

** If you get a bigger trimmer, make a reference case of the proper length and store it in your die box. This makes it easy to set your case trimmer if you reload more than one caliber.

** Wipe the outside of the case necks with a towel before you size them, this will prevent denting of the shoulders.

** Get a GOOD reloading manual and actually read it. Believe it or not they actually contain useful material.

Be SAFE, have fun. Good Luck.

 

[NCHornet]

Thanks for the help.
Dillon makes Carbide rifle dies, but at almost $140 they ain't cheap.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/co...bide_Rifle_Dies__Individual___Three_Die_Sets_

Most of my brass has already been tumbled but not deprimed, so I am guessing I need to deprime, ream the primer pocket, trim the OAL, chamfer inside of case neck, lube outside of case and inside of neck, then reload. Is this the right idea? My barrel is stamped 5.56 so according to Bushmaster I can shoot either 5.56 military rounds or 223 rem. right?
Most of my shooting will be plinking, we don't have anywhere around here where we can pull a 200 yard shot so the majority will be 175 yards and under. I was thinking of a 65-70 grain so it won't be affected by wind as much, but there sure isn't the selection in this weight as there is in the 55 gr. The 223 will be the only rifle ammo I will ever load, unless I one day load for the 7.62x39, if prices keep going up I just might. The Lee case trimmer, chamfer and primer reamer can all be had for under $20, which I don't think is to bad. I amy buy two sets. My 16 year old son can help me while we watch TV. For the bullets I am not looking a match bullets, just good consistent the Rem bulk pack FMJ. Anybody have a farvorite load for a 65-70 grain FMJ? Not sure if I want a BT, Flat base, smooth side or cant. So any advice on these would be great. I was looking and many are using the H335 powder for the AR rounds. Again thanks so much for the help.
Kevin

 

[Wibb]

Cool, I didn't know they made carbide rifle dies. Looks like you still have to lube them so I don't see a huge advantage.

I use Varget with AR. I was using 748 but ran into some problems with temp deviations at warmer temps. I have nothing but good things to say about Varget though. There are a wide array of loads with it for many different types of bullets. I use Sierra's 69 gr HPBT and load 25.9 grains. I also load for several other Sierra bullets. I have never shot the Rem's so I don't have anything for them.

 

[HJ857]

That's a lot of brass. Prepping cases is the worst part of reloading. The Lee trimmer isn't so bad, but the Lee chamfer/deburr is not so good. You'll rapidly tire of using it.

You want something more, like this (plus the cutter head)
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=492986&t=11082005

or this

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=565099&t=11082005

and you'll likely have to deal with military primer crimps. The RCBS can accept a cutter that attaches to the above unit. There are other options as well. Do not press in new primers if the crimp is intact. It's just a waste of time, and not real safe either.

Also, you need to apply lube before you resize/deprime. You won't need lube for any subsequent steps. A spray lube is much faster to apply than say, the Lee stuff that comes in a tube.

I'm using H335 with 55gr soft points. Works well for me but I do not require benchrest accuracy. H335 is a bit dirty. Ramshot TAC is worth messing with, it's very clean and keeps copper fouling to a minimum, which is great if your barrel is not chrome lined. I've used TAC for both 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39 and have been pleased. Haven't worked on a .223 load yet though.

 

[snuffy]

It's entirely possible to be confused by the above info. Here's my thoughts.

The lee system of case trimming is all I use. The case spinner is put in a cordless drill. The primer has to be out/gone, before you can trim with the lee system. Now put the case in the spinner shell holder, start the drill and put the case gauge/trimmer head into the case. Let it trim until it stops. Remove the cutter then pickup the inside/outside chamfer tool. While the case is still spinning,(reduce the rpms for chamfering), hold the chamfer tool against the mouth of the case. If you want to chamfer the inside of the flash hole, you can also do that while it's still in the case spinner. If the case was resized before starting this, you're ready to prime and finish the round. Also, some of your once fired brass may not be long enough for the lee trimmer to take a cut. In that case you only need to inside chamfer the case. Before I remove the case from the spinner, I wipe the case with a paper towel soaked in denatured alcohol to remove sizing lube.

I don't bother with cleaning primer pockets, most of the time. Some bother with it, I don't think it makes any difference.

As for bullets, your 1-7 twist is too fast for 55 and under bullets. Some of the SX,(super explosive), bullets, if spun too fast will self destruct shortly after leaving the barrel. The lowest in grain weight I would go with that twist is 60 grains.

I've loaded many thousands of .223, NEVER have I used or needed to use a small base die. My Bushmaster eats those reloads and asks for more! Some say military brass that was shot in various machine guns will require one pass through a small base die, don't know, never found any, or if some I got didn't need it.

H-335 is pretty much a standard .223 powder. It meters well, it fills the case but doesn't need to be compressed. Varget works well too, but it does not meter well though most measures. It still seems to shoot well even though it's inconsistent in charge weights.

 

[CrustyFN]

I do it the same as Snuffy. It's too qiuck and easy in the cordless drill to worry about chamferring and deburring a different way. It takes 4 or 5 seconds to complete a case, I think it would slow you down and cost more money to use something different.
Rusty

 

[The Lovemaster]

Snuffy, have you ever used the Lee chamfer/deburr tool for removing primer crimps?

That tool is great, best $2 I ever spent. Glad I waited and didn't get the $15 RCBS model.

 

[crowbeaner]

I use H335, BLC2, and WW 748 with good results. With the tight twist you have, you will want heavy-for-caliber bullets like 65 grains and up. AA 2230 and the milsurp powders 844 and 846 should work well also. Ditto on the SB dies too. They make your cartridge sit on the bottom of the chamber for correct obturation upon firing. I think the hot bullet right now is the Sierra 77 grainer; most tight twist guns seem to shoot it quite well.

 

[Tim R]

Let me say some of the info given isn't always so. I load 223 for High Power competition using a tuned AR. I have 2 in fact. I need my ammo to shoot well and always feed during rapids. I loose points if it doesn't.

1. I do not, I repeat, I do not use a small base die. You will only need one of these if the rifle you have requires it. The important thing is to set your die up right from the get go. I set my die on the shell holder with the ram all the way up and turn it down some more. I turn it down until there is no space between the bottom of the die and shell holder when there is a case in the die and ram is all the way up. You will have what is called "cam over" when there is no case in the die and you raise the ram. To ensure I have sized a case enough, I place a sized case in the chamber. The bolt should close easy although a little help is needed to get the extractor over the extraction groove in the case. If the case ejects easily when the charging handle is pulled it's good enough.

2. I use a Hornaday match bushing die. The bullets I use have no means to crimp. The bushings come in different sizes which adjust the amount of neck tension the neck of the brass will have depending on which bullet you use. I use Sierra Match Kings. I have never had bullet set back by using this system. I also use RCBS case lube 2 on a case lube pad. This case lube wipes of with a damp rag.

3. Bullets. I have 1 AR with a 6 1/2 to 1 twist. I had dreams of firing 90 gr. SMK's at a 1000 but decided this will never happen. I have won matches and money using 52 gr SMK's at little 100 yard reduced matches in my area. I did not reduce my load although I'm not pushing as hard as I could. Easy on the brass, easy on the gun. But they are still going dang fast. First time I shot them I was worried about having one or 2 come apart but they all made it to the target. Other bullets I have shot out of this rifle is 55's, 69's, 77's and 80's. I haven't shot 52's, 55's or 69's out of my 7 to 1 twist rifle yet. I used it to win it's first match last weekend using 77's and 80's. The 7 to 1 twist rifle is just now getting broke in.

4. Seating Die. I use a Forster Ultra match seating die. It is simular to the Redding Ultra match seating die but the Redding won't stand up to compressed loads. If you use 69's, 77's or 80's you will be compressing powders like Varget and Reloader 15 for sure. The Forster is built like a tank and will out last me.

5. Powder: I like Reloader 15. I know it won't meter well out of a throw but it's worth it to me as it shoots well and it's clean. Very little carbon build up on the bolt unlike most ball powers. Soak it with solvent for about 30 minutes and it wipes right off.

6. Primers: I like Remington 7 1/2's. CCI small rifle bench rest primers will do in a pinch. I avoid Win and Fed primers period. I know someones feelings will be hurt but they should get over it. It's my ammo.

7. Brass: I will not use Federal 223 brass. I used Federal once fired brass at Perry this last year. I had problems with the brass in the primer pocket area. I had heard stories but thought I would be OK with some once fired but this was simply not the case. I use only Lake City brass. It comes with a crimped primer pocket and I swage it. After I swage it I uniform the primer pocket. Uniforming the primer pocket is the best spent money so far for making the ammo shoot better. Lots of guys use Win brass and I would too if it didn't cost so much.

 

[stubbicatt]

I think you would do well to read a reloading manual as the steps are set forth clearly in most manuals with good explanation.

In order:

1 Clean, tumble, whatever.
2. Inspect for obvious defects.
3. Lube and then size.
4. Trim, chamfer, debur, primer pocket or flash hole prep if necessary or desired.
5. Tumble to get lube off.
6. Prime.
7. Charge with powder
8. Seat bullet
9. Crimp if desired.
10. Inspect.

Inspections along the way pay dividends in winnowing out defective components.

HTH.

 

[Wibb]

I only suggested small base dies to be on the safe side. Not to start an "all caps bold type you don't know what you are talking about" war. I just didn't want him to load up a lot of ammo and realize he has a problem feeding or cycling. It wasn't intended to give out bad info. Hopefully that is realized.

And for the record, his 1 in 7 will stabilze lighter bullets, mine does it all the time, I have loaded thousands of .223 as well. I have shot 52, 55, 69, 77, and 80 grain bullets and have not had 1 problem from any of them. Actually, the 52's are tack drivers if loaded correctly.

 

[snuffy]

You should buy a set of "small base" full length dies. The small base dies are for semi-auto rifles.

Looks like an end all positive statement to me. I hate to start arguments. The OP wanted to do .223 loads for the first time. He did not need to hear the often repeated, "you need a small base die". I'll state the middle ground here. You MAY need a small base die SOMETIMES. If you get some brass that's been fired in an oversize chamber, it may not fit in a match chamber. Then you use a small base die ONCE, after that it will always fit.

And for the record, his 1 in 7 will stabilize lighter bullets, mine does it all the time, I have loaded thousands of .223 as well.

The point is; the fast twist will OVER stabilize a lighter bullet, spin it too fast. The speer TNT, Hornady SX and others have very thin jackets. The Hornady bullets have a warning right on the box about velocity limits and rifle makes. Do not go over 3,300 fps or use in a Winchester rifle.

Case in point; I was loading for a 22-250 Remington. I THOUGHT I was heading the velocity limit, keeping it under 3300. The fun shoot is called a jug shoot. Water filled milk jugs are hung from wires and shot to bust 'em. My son was shooting the Rem, but seemed to be missing close targets. A fellow shooter noticed what looked like a smoking rope about 20-30 yds in front of the rifle. Examination of the jug being shot at showed fine chunks of jacket and lead embedded in the plastic! About half of the bullets were self destructing.

 

[FatWhiteMan]

Get an RCBS X-Die. Once you have full length sized your cases and trimmed to the same length, just use the X-Die in your progressive in place of the FL sizer and you will not have to trim each time. The X-Die will stop the brass flow at the same point. Makes crimping in a cannalure easy too.

 

[Walipala]

I like the Lee case trimmer and deburr tool. The trimmer is very easy to use, and fast, and there is no adjustment to deal with.

And I've found the Lee deburring to be vary easy to do if done while the case is still on the drill chuck. And it's not a very aggressive tool either, unlike the Hornady one I bought once, which cuts too hard too fast and removes a lot more metal than necessary. You just need to knock off the sharp edges, not deeply bevel the case mouth.

If I have one complaint about the Lee, I guess it does dull after a while, so they need replacing after a while. But at $2 a piece, how big a deal is that? Just buy two or three at at time.

NCHornet, I don't think you will like doing the trimming and deburring in front of the TV though---unless you mean you've got a TV in the garage. Trimming and deburring is kind of messy. I'm sure you don't want lots of little brass shards and chips all over your den and easy chair.

The way I trim and deburr is to let my Milwaukee cordless drill rest upright on its battery on a work bench. I hold the drill stationary, and I keep a rag underneath. I can't imagine a faster method than this.

 

[The Lovemaster]

Yes, the Lee debur/chamfer tool is great. Thanks for the advice that it dulls, I didn't know that.

Have you ever tried removing primer crimps with it? What about just using a drill bit? I'm too cheap to get the proper Dillon tool now, after all.

Thanks

 

[freakshow10mm]

I have never trimmed a .223 case. Ever. Waste of time. So is cleaning primer pockets.

For a simple swaging tool, get the Hornady small pocker reamer and chuck it in a drill press or hand drill. Stick the reamer in the pocket, hit the trigger once and you are done.

I have used this method and have the Dillon swager and they are about equal in speed. I just got done processing 12K pieces of crimped 223 brass for a customer.

I take fired, cleaned brass and put them in a bag. Spray in some Hornady One Shot and shake the bag to coat them all. Turn the can upside down and give a shot inside the FL sizer die. Then run them in the Dillon 550 like any other cartridge. Dump the finished rounds on a towel and wipe off the lube.

 

[Martyn4802]

freakshow,

Just curious about your statement about never trimming cases, as it's a waste of time. Do you measure case lengths to make sure they are within specs? I've never ever been in a situation where case lengths are not a concern...???

Martyn

 

[kelbro]

Trimming is not always required

Check out the chamber plugs that Sinclair sells. About $6-7 I think. Measure your chamber. You might be surprised. My .223 bolt guns measure 1.775" and I have never had a piece of .223 brass grow THAT much. Many AR chambers are even longer.

I trim brass when new for uniformity. Check each subsequent loading. Trim only if necessary.