Help me Get Creative With a VZ 58 Scope Mount

[dakota.potts]

I've been shooting my VZ 58 a lot lately and it's becoming one of my favorite rifles. It's light, handles well, easy to shoot, has very little felt recoil with its new compensator, doesn't cost a bunch of money every time I pull the trigger.

I've been liking it so much that I've been thinking I might like to take it hunting this year.

Unfortunately, I find the iron sights lacking for a few purposes (one of my only real complaints with the rifle) and I've been looking at scope mounts. I'd like to mount a 1-4 or a 1-6X scope with normal eye relief on it.

But, I also have a free trial of Autodesk. I go to class 20 hours a week for Machine Tool Technology and I'll have gunsmithing next semester, but we share a machine lab so I may be able to have a gunsmithing student/instructor help me if need be. Just trying to see if I could design something myself that could turn into a real project on a milling machine.

I'm thinking either a side rail mount, an HK style claw mount, or a dust cover mount (not magnetic). Looking for something that is somewhat removable to clean the gun, doesn't get in the way of the ejection (gun likes to eject straight up and slightly right/forward), might allow use of iron sights but doesn't require turkey necking to look through the sights, things of that nature. Don't want to remove the stock iron sights and don't want a forward mounted system with long eye relief. Something that doesn't require too many highly complex operations to create.

If I fail, I fail. Maybe I buy a commercial mount or maybe I just learn to shoot the thing better with iron sights. Just trying to think of a fun school project I might benefit from. And with the magic of CAD, I can mock up designs in 3D space and look at them before I even touch stock or gun.

What do you guys think?

 

[5.56RifleGuy]

Im not sure if you were aware, but the original design uses a side mount, similar to an AK. I believe the receiver is drilled and tapped to attach it.

Check out czechpoints website if you want some sort of reference.

 

[marine6680]

^ That

If you want to do it as a project, go for it. Otherwise look into Czechpoint.

 

[dakota.potts]

I was aware that there were side rail mounts, but did not realize they were part of the original design. How stable are they with screws only holding them in place in one direction?

A friend of mine suggested I look into the B Square style mounts and consider them.

Definitely just considering it as a project, otherwise I'd buy one of the ones on the market and call it a day.

 

[leadcounsel]

I've never looked into it, but is there a supply of 5 round mags?

Most hunting states have low mag capacities.

I personally would't screw with rifle. I have 3 of them. Light and awesome. Not something I'd want to burden down with a scope and screwing with the frame. It's a great infantry rifle, but as a hunting rifle... eh? Dunno. Maybe in a pinch but not optimal.

I'd just get a dedicated hunting rifle. But to each their own.

 

[dakota.potts]

No magazine capacity restriction in South Carolina, though I'd like a 10-20 round magazine if one came my way.

I'd like to see the capabilities of the rifle with a scope. I know there's more to this rifle than 100 yard center-of-mass capabilities, and I think a small low power scope (with a 1X on the low end) would allow me to stretch it a little bit without sacrificing performance up close.

But the fact that I may not always want it is why I'm not looking to remove or permanently alter the stock sights or anything like that.

 

[Pond James Pond]

If the scope doesn't have a long eye-relief is there not a risk of a scope right over the breach being constantly hit by ejected cases?

 

[ohiomossyoak]

What about a mount like the RS regulate 304 model?

 

[dakota.potts]

Pond, you are right about that. The rifle likes to eject straight up and forward, so I don't want the scope hanging much over the breech. That's why a small scope would be important, and I'd want to mount it somewhat rearward

 

[Pond James Pond]

Seems to me that a RDS might be good instead. There is also this attachment from Zahal that replaces the rear cover although I think it makes takedown a little harder then just finger-tips...

I know you don't want to buy but rather build (and with those prices I can see why), but perhaps you can get inspiration from what they've done:

Optic Mount

Receiver cover

 

[dakota.potts]

I thought about a red dot sight, but if I were going to do that it would be much easier to use a forward handguard rail for that. Really would like some level of magnification

 

[Pond James Pond]

OK, well good luck.

I really like the VZ58 (858 Tactical over here) and I really like tinkering so I'll be doubly interested in how you get on.

 

[dakota.potts]

I would love to have an 858 since I have a love affair with CZ firearms. I have a 75, a 452, and a 612.

I don't know how far I'll go with the project, but I'll try to at least throw up a CAD drawing for practice

 

[Pond James Pond]

I would love to have an 858

Is that different to the VZ58?

In Europe the 858 Tactical is the name given for what is the VZ58 in the US.

If you do fashion a side mounted scope rail, perhaps you can weld on to it an angled "bash-plate" that would act as a deflecting shield for the scope against casings flying straight up at the scope's underside.

 

[dakota.potts]

The 858 was imported by CZ, but I thought it was manufactured by them as well. The VZ 58 I have is actually a VZ2008 assembled on a US-made receiver by Century Arms.

I've found this interesting rifle from Canda, where the 858 apparently was banned because some of the receivers had a milled out floor where the RCMP thought they might have once had full auto parts installed, making them illegal. It has a full length rail that also functions as a shell deflector. I wonder if I could do something like this without having to remove the rear sight.

http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/k...8-4743-A835-98227EF8F22A_zpsqssb4mg7.jpg.html

 

[Pond James Pond]

Sounds like perhaps a slighly different gun. Over here the 858 is the VZ58 that I've seen in US YT vids:

From the EU CZ site.

As for the FL scope rail, I think the problem is that virtually none of the parts along the top of the CZ's receiver are stable. They can all be removed and indeed need to be for disassembly. That would not be conducive to retaining a zero. That is why the railed received cover I linked earlier needs to be bolted on.

It is probably also why the side-mounted rail I also linked has a QR system otherwise you would be able to field-strip.

I can't see from that photo if the scope rail is also side-mounted but I guess it must be.

EDIT: having looked again it is clearly bolted onto the receiver, not from the side.

 

[dakota.potts]

That is for all intents and purposes the same as the VZ2008, except the receiver and barrel on mine are American made (the Green Mountain Barrel is actually 16" rather than 15 and some change, so under our laws here we can remove the muzzle device and put a new one on rather than having to have it pinned and welded to meet the minimum barrel length).

The 958 I posted above is a modification of the 858, but I think I could steal some design ideas.

The QR system is definitely where it gets interesting for me. I'm sure I can mill out a mount with my skills, but I'd have to spend some time thinking about a QR system that would hold zero well and return to zero reasonably well, but also allow access for cleaning and disassembly.

I'm looking for some good receiver blueprints now so I can work on drawing something up. I have the rifle and I have some calipers, but I don't have anything to measure accurately across the whole length of the rifle or in the various recesses in the receiver.

 

[dakota.potts]

I may have come up with an interesting idea using something else that's on the market.

NEA has a cantilever QD mount that attaches to the stock screw on the rear of the gun. It's a fairly big, fine threaded screw, so I think it should be pretty stable.

My thinking is I can machine an adapter that squares up with the slant back of the VZ 58 receiver and attach a picatinny mount to it. I can then attach a Quick Dismount to the rail, something short like this one

I think I can use a single ring and be OK since I'll be going with a smaller, lighter scope.

Machining the stock adapter will actually start the rail back at least a 1/2 an inch or so, which will help get it rear of the ejection port. It will also move the stock back, extending the length of pull a little bit and helping with eye relief.

It's also given me a crazy idea that since I'd have to machine my stock adapter into my tang mounted rail, I could set it up to adapt to just about any stock type that I want. I like the folding stock, but I could also do a collapsible stock. Something that allows a low profile for storage and handling. I'm actually flirting with the idea of machining it for an H&K style PDW collapsible stock, but there are a lot of ways I could go with it. Something like this one would be really cool to try.

Might need some trimming on the right side to not interfere with the safety though. I'll just have to take a look at some of the dimensions

This is appealing to me because there are no permanent modifications to the rifle and it can easily go back to original form, the QD lever allows a quick access to iron sights for backup, and it should solve the ejection problem nicely.

 

[skizzums]

I this isn't what you are saying your wanting. But I have to tell you, this cz2008 with this set up was the most accurate ak platform that I have ever shot in my life. Repeatable bug holes at 50-75 yards. Would get so mad that it outshot all of my sks's since I always stood by a mild accuracy increase of the SKS over AK, well this one proved me wrong on dozens of occasions. The upgrades were costly since they were proprietary, bit worth it and I think cheaper nowadays. This set up has a fine dot, but a 1x4 may be even a better voice, as long as the relief was fantastic. Good luck and you got IMO the best ak out there in terms of weight, maneuverability and accuracy most importantly.

Note that the forend/rails/etc were all milled and solid as anything.



Not sure if that Texas company that makes the dog legs for aks also have a cz option. Worth checking into, or what the difference is dimensionally and see if it can be made to fit. The only solid way of making it a true flat top as far as I know.

http://www.texasweaponsystems.com/

 

[Pond James Pond]

I may have come up with an interesting idea using something else that's on the market.

Looks great!
However, my only reservation is solidity of the receiver cover as a base.

Is that receiver cover rock solid when in place or does it move around even a bit?

When removed and replaced does it end up in exactly the same place as before you took it off?

If the answer to those is NO, does it not suggest that you'd be unable to maintain a serviceable zero?