Help me choose a .223!

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BADMAN400

New member
OK guys, I need some input/ideas/opinions on my next purchase. I put some money down on a Ruger Mini-14 5/P synthetic stock, stainless 16" bbl w/flashhider. I like the 2-20-rd capacity mags and the close defense to 100 yd capabilities of this rifle. I also like the fact that I can toss it in the trunk if I need to without worrying too much about scratches, and the fact it is easy to clean and maintain. I've read some good things about the Mini-14, but also that it isn't very accurate beyond 100 yds. I really don't need beyond 100 yds. anyway. I also want the Kel-Tec PLR-16 though, and I can change my deposit and apply to another choice up to the time of purchase. I would appreciate some thoughts from some of the experts in the room. If you had $675 to spend, what would be your choice in a .223 for HD/up to 100yd-range, to get the most use, enjoyment, and reliable use? All input appreciated! Thnx in advance! :cool:
 
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Buckythebrewer

Moderator
I love the ar15's but I have also owned a stainless mini14 ranch rifle and loved it.If 100 yrds is all you care about and youve decided on the MINI I would go with THE 7.62X39 VERSION(oh wait!!,, you cand hardly find the ammo anymore:() for the added knock down at short range with the short barrel.If you want a very nice compact rifle you can through in the truck an m4 ar15 is hard to beat.I owned a 10.5 with flash hider(total of 16 inches) on it and it was the best rifle ive ever carried in the woods..I now own a 24 stainless target ar15 that weighs around 13#,,THAT wont be SO KIND IN THE WOODS:)..Its up to you because for what you want it for there is no clear winner out of this.The choice for me would be easy.M4 shorty AR with 1-8 twist 223barrel using black hills 77smk ammo(or hand loads with 77smk).That will cause some devistation even with the short barrel velocity drop.If 1-9 twist is the only barrel available being that short,I would use blackhills 69gr smk..I also wanted to comment on how nice the factory hardware is on the MINI,I would use factory mags ,factory stock because of how well the rifle balances and how well the factory mags work comapared to alot of the cheap stuff out there..
Oh,,by the way im not an expert.. But I posted anyways:p :D
 
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JR47

Moderator
There are a LOT of people out there who don't have the tools, experience, or mechanical ability to build a rifle from a parts kit. The Cheapest AR we found was $750.00, and you do get what you pay for. Most of the "plinker" AR rifles that you can buy for the $650-750 range strike me as the AR equivalent to a Jennings .22 lr. Some will work, and fewer will work well, but you just don't know until you get it.

This isn't just my opinion, Pat Rogers shared his extensive opinions on the AR amd M16 in the AR vs. AK47 thread.:)
 
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BADMAN400

New member
I do plan to get an AR-15 down the road, but I will spend $1200-$1500 to get what I want assembled. I'm sure I could figure out how to put one together, but for the first one I would want a Bushy, Colt, RRA or S&W M&P, ready to go.
But, for now I have to stick to the $675 budget on this purchase. Like I said, I do like the Kel-Tec PL-16 and could get it for $490 with some change left over for accessories. But, then again the Mini-14 will be ready to go with some ammo. Thnx for taking the time to help! Keep it coming please. Every post teaches me something new. And Lord knows I need the schooling. :cool:
 
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kentucky_smith

New member
Building an Ar from a parts kit takes about 30 minutes while reading instructions from AR15.com.

parts.JPG


You can get a Doublestar for $699 completely assembled.


Funny, I'm shooting cloverleafs at 100' with my "jennings":rolleyes: AR.

I've had it about 3 weeks, have shot about 1000 rounds through, it and had one failure to feed. I threw the magazine away and haven't had another.

ar%20005.JPG


IMG_0099.JPG

Those kel-tecs do look pretty nice. Everything I've read has been positive. Mini14's seem a bit pricey to me.
 
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Lycanthrope

New member
I have to concur with Kentucky Smith. My first AR build took 45 minutes with no tools besides punches. It was a Model 1 build and cost $515 total and shoots sub 1 MOA. I fired 1000 rounds of Wolf before cleaning the bolt and carrier just to see if I could. I have yet to have a failure of any kind.

Perhaps I got lucky, but the little kit gun holds up as well as my semi customs (Clark "Gator" and White Oak Armament guns).

It's sad to see gun shops selling guns for $800 when you can get a RRA lower and drop a guaranteed .5 MOA upper on it for $1000. The only gun I'd pay over $1000 for would be a JP.
 
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Tomac

New member
I'll take the Mini-14, very definitely rugged, reliable & KISS.
AR's?... The troubleshooting forum at AR15.COM currently has 3,024 topics w/21,154 replies :eek:
Tomac
ResizeofNewMini-14s002.jpg
 
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elokoman

New member
.223

Personally I like the Mini for what it does, and my experience has been perfect reliability, and shoot both 5.56 and .223. If you get into AR's, you will want to think about whether you want it chambered for 5.56 or. 223.

For the ultimate in accuracy and in your price range, it is hard to beat a bolt rifle in .223. You could get a good Savage with decent scope for the dollars you are looking at.

Lately I have come to appreciate the AK's chambered in .223. Perhaps not as accurate as the AR, but plenty accurate for my shooting ability and the realization that within 100 yards or so the 5.56 is extremely effective. Much beyond that range, the effectiveness drops off as you get beyond the distances at which it will fragment.

Again, if accuracy is what matters, get a bolt gun. If accuracy and semi-auto speed of follow-up shots are important, consider an AR. The .223 AK is just another compromise that is less expensive than an AR. If you can find a SAR-3, you have a good package from which to build a better one as budget allows.
 
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MisterPX

New member
Between your two choices, I'd go with the Mini. I haven't heard too much about the Su16, but if it runs anything like the Sub9, then that wouldn't be too bad either, however the Mini has more products available for it to tailor it to your liking.
 
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Lycanthrope

New member
The round is technically the same although the 5.56 is often loaded to higher pressure........

So...guns chambered in 5.56 have "looser" chambers than the .223 to allow for those pressures. Shooting a hot 5.56 round out of a tight .223 match chamber can overpressure.

http://ammo-oracle.com/
 
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shooter_john

New member
GREAT LUCK with "JENNINGS" AR's

I've gotta go with kentucky smith and lycanthrope here. My first AR was a DPMS, just over $600 for a basic 16" gun, and it has never missed a beat. I so liked my "Jennings" AR, I now have 2 more in different configurations and I've had zero problems from any of them. :eek: But who knows, maybe I got lucky ALL THREE times!:D
To answer your question, I far prefer my AR's to the Mini 14 I once had. More fun, more options, and much cheaper, more reliable mags.
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
The only drawback to a Mini that seems to not be an emotional-hangup and rumor thing is that the thin barrel will heat up and group-size expands after some three shots. For hunting and plinking, that's unimportant.

Hunting, what's important is the first shot from a cold barrel and the Mini is just fine, there. Most plinking is within a hundred yards, and generally at beer-can-sized targets.

In the way-back-when of the 1940s/1950s, the "rifleman's rifle", the Model 70, commonly gave two MOA results with iron sights and the factory ammo then available. That was regarded as plenty good for deer hunting. Most Minis will do that good for three-shot groups, which is plenty good for coyotes and jackrabbits...

:), Art
 
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FirstFreedom

Moderator
Man, I'd love to have a gun stamped Winchester, Kentucky on the side - both the city and state are cool. Much better than New Haven, Conn, Yonkers, NY, or Massa-choo-sitts, like most other guns. The 'coolest' city found on any of mine, I think, is Windham, Maine, and that's *still* yankee-land!
 
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Buckythebrewer

Moderator
Im only 45 minutes or so from the bushmaster plant:D I think i'll go take a drive and see how my fello yanks are doing:)OH wait I can't afford the friggin GAS!!!!:barf: BY THE WAY ,WHY KISS??ive got shooting to do with my ar15.at over 600YRDS in fact..Im even thinking about 1000yrds,,That is why im using an ar15.good luck with the mini at that range..I can hit a man sized target every time at 600 yrds with my ar15( Of course thats prone with sandbags and a nice scope:rolleyes: )Ive got reliable firepower AND accuracy.You can't change those facts..multiple k's in the past shot reliably through an ar15..Don't go by rumors from the past on a rifle..It takes more than an impression to change the facts..
 
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taylorce1

New member
Lycanthrope,

I was going to call bulls*@t on your answer about pressures in the 5.56 vs .223, because I was under the impression that military cartridges had thicker case walls. If that were the case there would be less room for powder and the only thing that would cause pressure build up would be the heavier bullets that are used in 5.56 ammo. Before I made and A$$ out of myself I did a quick web serch and found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56_x_45_mm_NATO and I now stand corrected. Thanks for the education!
 
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Lycanthrope

New member
No problem. I'd just hate to see anyone blow up their beloved back rifle.

Also...don't forget that case wall isn't the only thing to effect pressure. The type of powder used and it's burn rate has a HUGE impact on pressure.
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
I bought my first Mini-14 when they were first introduced. At that time, I knew a few guys in the Army at Fort Hood. They occasionally would "liberate" ammo left over from range exercises. The Mini digested it as happily as any other ammo.

I'm dubious that the shear strength of the bolt lugs on an AR or a Mini are stronger than those on a bolt-action.

As far as semi-auto accuracy in the .223, I had a Bushie Match Target which would give 1/2 MOA five-shot groups all day long. The drawback was the weight, at 9.5 pounds.

I dunno as how I'd worry about any designated "truck gun" and 250-yard shots, this side of Montana/Wyoming grasslands style of country. Over the last 30 or so years, I've mostly seen coyotes inside of 150 or 100 yards while actually driving around in the local back country...

Art
 
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