Help fmjbt diameter all over the place.
- Thread starter trigger45
- Start date
Trigger45,
At 4032 pixels wide, that photo goes way off-screen for most unless they zoom out to where the text is no longer eligible. You want to reduce it to about 800 pixels wide, maybe 1024 at most, so everyone can see it.
BL-(C)2 is canister grade Western Cannon 846, a spherical propellant designed for the M80 cartridge originally. It may do better for you with a magnum primer, as it doesn't ignite easily. You can always move to something like one of the 4895's if you don't find a good load with it.
I have to say I don't recall ever finding a 147-grain FMJ that shot very well. The very slightly heavier Hornady 150-grain FMJ bullet has always shot better for me, and, of course, the 150-grain Sierra MatchKing is better still.
At 4032 pixels wide, that photo goes way off-screen for most unless they zoom out to where the text is no longer eligible. You want to reduce it to about 800 pixels wide, maybe 1024 at most, so everyone can see it.
BL-(C)2 is canister grade Western Cannon 846, a spherical propellant designed for the M80 cartridge originally. It may do better for you with a magnum primer, as it doesn't ignite easily. You can always move to something like one of the 4895's if you don't find a good load with it.
I have to say I don't recall ever finding a 147-grain FMJ that shot very well. The very slightly heavier Hornady 150-grain FMJ bullet has always shot better for me, and, of course, the 150-grain Sierra MatchKing is better still.
Ok big question. 308 win ,147gr fmjbt, blc2.
Well I’d like to amend my post, I had a bad range trip.
After noticing my groups getting larger I stopped. Went home and started measuring bullets. Some were .3085 some were .3075 and I was rather put out. So I have 400 fishing weights left. Figured I’ll spend $20 on a sizing die. I’ll see if that helps. so we’ll find out. Thought I could get out cheap. Even thinking about calling MidwayUSA. Cleaned my barrel for an hour. Finally got it cleaned from all the gunk. Now don’t need loads need consistent bullets.
Edit. Not MidwayUSA, it was wideners.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Well I’d like to amend my post, I had a bad range trip.
After noticing my groups getting larger I stopped. Went home and started measuring bullets. Some were .3085 some were .3075 and I was rather put out. So I have 400 fishing weights left. Figured I’ll spend $20 on a sizing die. I’ll see if that helps. so we’ll find out. Thought I could get out cheap. Even thinking about calling MidwayUSA. Cleaned my barrel for an hour. Finally got it cleaned from all the gunk. Now don’t need loads need consistent bullets.
Edit. Not MidwayUSA, it was wideners.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Mr.RevolverGuy
New member
My M1A and AR10 shoots 44.8gr of BLC2 lights out with a 147gr pill. I reproduced surplus radway gree case head stamp RG load. This british military surplus ammo from Radway is 147gr with 46.8gr of WC846/BLC2 in a Winchester case. This is very important as winchest cases has much more volume than the cases I were using. My Lake City cases has 2gr less volume so my load ended up being 44.8gr.
Never believe any reloading data you get on the internet it must always be double checked in the proper reloading manual. Also never think this load will work flawlessly for you as each rifle is different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcSxT2B7Ptk
Never believe any reloading data you get on the internet it must always be double checked in the proper reloading manual. Also never think this load will work flawlessly for you as each rifle is different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcSxT2B7Ptk
Competitive shooters using handloaded bullets 145 to 155 grains in 308/7.62 cases winning matches and setting records favored stick (extruded) powders. Even with 2/10th grain charge weight spreads compared to zero with ball powders.
IMR4895 and Varget are excellent.
IMR4895 and Varget are excellent.
Last edited:
Mr.RevolverGuy,
It looks like that lot of Ammo had potential in your AR10. I would like to have seen what a 10-shot group looked like, but what you got out of the M1A is more typical of what I've seen from most 147's. I know of no mechanical reason that has to be true, though. It just seems more like an artifact of most of that stuff being cranked out quickly and not too carefully.
Below is an example of 150.5-grain M2 Ball bullets that also didn't shoot too tightly. They are out of a 1972 lot of M2 Ball. The different bullet bases show they weren't made on the same tooling and maybe not even on identical types of machines. That lot had a crimp similar to the Lee Factory crimp, but right in the middle of the bullet bearing surface, so some of them can't even roll smoothing on a flat surface.
It looks like that lot of Ammo had potential in your AR10. I would like to have seen what a 10-shot group looked like, but what you got out of the M1A is more typical of what I've seen from most 147's. I know of no mechanical reason that has to be true, though. It just seems more like an artifact of most of that stuff being cranked out quickly and not too carefully.
Below is an example of 150.5-grain M2 Ball bullets that also didn't shoot too tightly. They are out of a 1972 lot of M2 Ball. The different bullet bases show they weren't made on the same tooling and maybe not even on identical types of machines. That lot had a crimp similar to the Lee Factory crimp, but right in the middle of the bullet bearing surface, so some of them can't even roll smoothing on a flat surface.
Arsenal ammo plants are notorious for putting several different lots of bullets in one production lot of ammo. 30 caliber match ammo typically had 3 or 4 different sets of dies making bullets for one lot of ammo. No wonder the best lots tested about 2 MOA at 600, most lots 3 MOA plus.
Which one of the several reloading manuals is proper?
Rarely, if ever, do their max loads agree. Nor do they use the same lots of powder and primers as you will.
Don Fischer
New member
I had a long running love for the 308 in the past, still have one but only shoot cast in it when I do shoot anymoe. I'd never found a 150gr bullet that shot as well as 165's and 180's in my Rem 660. But come's to powder it always seemed like it didn't matter much what I used as long as it wasn't slow burning. BLC/2, W748. IMR 3031 IMR 4064, they all shot lights out good! For whatever reason I don't know my favotire was IMR 3031. The differenc in it and the other's was, I think, all in my head! BLC/2 just might could use a mag primer. Haven't had any around i years but as I recall wasn't it a ball powder? Same with W 748. I simply used standard primer's and no complaint's. Neve bugh any FMJ bullet's for 308, I always used bullet's I would hunt with and that has always been standard cup and core bullet's.
People shooting Sierra 150 grain match bullets in 308 Win match rifles have got 1/4 MOA average since the mid 1960's. Favorite powder was IMR4895.
Rebulleting LC M80 ammo that had IMR4475 powder (speed between 3031 & 4895) with Sierra 150 HPMKs tested about 2/3rds MOA through 600 yards in USN 7.62 Garand's 1:12 twist barrels.
Rebulleting LC M80 ammo that had IMR4475 powder (speed between 3031 & 4895) with Sierra 150 HPMKs tested about 2/3rds MOA through 600 yards in USN 7.62 Garand's 1:12 twist barrels.
Last edited:
A 147 grain FMJBT is the standard 7.62NATO Ball bullet. Like Nick says, they're not made for accuracy.
"Just to play with" is a different story. They're great for that. Look for a powder that gives you around 2800 FPS using 150 grain data. Preferably with a mid range load. There are a lot of powders that'll do that. I'd have to look at what I loaded the 150 grain Silvertips(discontinued, sniff.) with for my semi'd Winchester M-14. Not at home though. It'd be whatever Lyman gave as the Accuracy load.
"...Never believe any reloading data you get on the internet..." That's not entirely true. Unless the data in question is not from a reputable source. Some guy on a forum is not a reputable source. A powder or bullet maker's site is. Mind you, some of 'em, like Hodgdon, have gotten kind of questionable(they're inconsistent with magnum vs non-magnum primer suggestions), but not for regular loads. The whole thing is about liability.
"Just to play with" is a different story. They're great for that. Look for a powder that gives you around 2800 FPS using 150 grain data. Preferably with a mid range load. There are a lot of powders that'll do that. I'd have to look at what I loaded the 150 grain Silvertips(discontinued, sniff.) with for my semi'd Winchester M-14. Not at home though. It'd be whatever Lyman gave as the Accuracy load.
"...Never believe any reloading data you get on the internet..." That's not entirely true. Unless the data in question is not from a reputable source. Some guy on a forum is not a reputable source. A powder or bullet maker's site is. Mind you, some of 'em, like Hodgdon, have gotten kind of questionable(they're inconsistent with magnum vs non-magnum primer suggestions), but not for regular loads. The whole thing is about liability.
1) Good.Cheap,Fast? Pick any two (Have reasonable expectations for bargain bullets)
2) Knurling displaces metal and has the effect of making diameters seem to have more material. Don't measure over knurled cannelures
3) Use an appropriate tool for the job. Dial calipers are good tools but if you are using them to say bullets measuring .308 to /309 are "All over the place"
you have a misconception about calipers.
Try a good Browne and Sharpe,Starret,Mitutoyo,etc micrometer,carbide faces,1 10,000th Vernier,check t against a standard such as a J0-Block,and measure your bullets.
The good news,your bullets are probably much better than you think
Your photo file size is way too big. They are magnified so large I can't really look at them.
2) Knurling displaces metal and has the effect of making diameters seem to have more material. Don't measure over knurled cannelures
3) Use an appropriate tool for the job. Dial calipers are good tools but if you are using them to say bullets measuring .308 to /309 are "All over the place"
you have a misconception about calipers.
Try a good Browne and Sharpe,Starret,Mitutoyo,etc micrometer,carbide faces,1 10,000th Vernier,check t against a standard such as a J0-Block,and measure your bullets.
The good news,your bullets are probably much better than you think
Your photo file size is way too big. They are magnified so large I can't really look at them.
They'll all size to the barrel groove diameter when fired. I wouldn't size them down at all
They're about .3086" to .3088' diameter. That's within SAAMI specs. Same diameter as arsenal 7.62 NATO M118 173 gr. FMJBT and 30 caliber WCC 197 gr. BTHP match bullets
30 caliber bullets shoot most accurate when they're at least .0003" larger than barrel groove diameters. I see nothing wrong with their diameters. Top quality match barrels with .3078" groove have shot 185vgr. Lapua .3092" match bullets sub 1/4 MOA thru 300 yards.
Slug your barrel then mic it to check its groove diameter.
They're about .3086" to .3088' diameter. That's within SAAMI specs. Same diameter as arsenal 7.62 NATO M118 173 gr. FMJBT and 30 caliber WCC 197 gr. BTHP match bullets
30 caliber bullets shoot most accurate when they're at least .0003" larger than barrel groove diameters. I see nothing wrong with their diameters. Top quality match barrels with .3078" groove have shot 185vgr. Lapua .3092" match bullets sub 1/4 MOA thru 300 yards.
Slug your barrel then mic it to check its groove diameter.
Last edited:
Ok I seem to be getting some replies. I checked some .243 bullets I have. They measured .243. I measured some .270 bullets .277 so my expectations were thus.
This is my first .30 caliber. But have been reloading for 35 years. Never ran into bullets this out of spec.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This is my first .30 caliber. But have been reloading for 35 years. Never ran into bullets this out of spec.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I saw .3085"-.310", .0015" difference which is OK for surplus battle rifle bullets. They certainly are not designed for super accuracy (if you weigh some, and measure the length you'll probable notice variations there too). Unless the vendor states the manufacturer you won't know how many manufacturers produced your 500 bullets...
I purchased a bunch of 147 gr pulls when I first started reloading for my Garand. I was concerned with function and getting used to reloading for a new to me type of rifle (and accuracy and good bullets came later.). Didn't have too high expectations about accuracy, so I only measured a random few. All worked and hit the target, somewhere...
I purchased a bunch of 147 gr pulls when I first started reloading for my Garand. I was concerned with function and getting used to reloading for a new to me type of rifle (and accuracy and good bullets came later.). Didn't have too high expectations about accuracy, so I only measured a random few. All worked and hit the target, somewhere...