HD Ammo technology?

[Rovert]

I've done a search, read, read some more, then read more yet again, and I'm still as confused as ever. I know that penetration is important, but a home defense scenario isn't the same as a battlefield, where FMJ is important to penetrate multiple layers of tactical gear. An assailant on the street isn't dressed like a combat soldier on the battlefield.

What confuses me is that, depending on what you read, one thing says it's all about penetration, the other about cavity, yet another about velocity. Given the new 'hot' loads on the market, the new technology out there these days, and the fact that we're NOT on a battlefield, what do you use, and why?

I am on the verge of paying a premium for Black Talons, and then, there are these: (uh... the ones on the LEFT, wiseguy )

I would appreciate some conventional, current, wisdom from you folks here, before placing my trust in something without qualified input.

What do you trust, why, and upon what is that trust based?(factual? hearsay? statistics?)

 

[C.R.Sam]

JHP......if driven fast enough they go deep and get big.

Sam

 

[Tamara]

I had to put "other" because I use different types of rounds in different types and calibers of guns.

Mostly relatively conventional JHP's from Speer, Cor-Bon and Triton, though.

 

[IamNOTaNUT]

I would normally consider a hydra-shok or talon a JHP. Since your poll does not consider them to be JHP's I selected other, because the Golden Sabers that grace my chambers are premium bullets similar to the HS or talon.

I will not use the fancy ammo like the glasers because I am not sold on their effectiveness, and their cost prohibits regular training. If I can't shoot a lot of them to make sure they function in my weapons, I am not going to trust my life to them. Regardless of what some shmuck in a magazine writes about them.

 

[Rovert]

Clarification...

Thanks for the replies, folks. As with most things technology related, there are 'gray areas'. Here's how I'm categorizing the loads that you guys have mentioned so far:

HydraShock: 'Jacketed Variant', since it is a hollow point, but has a post in the well.

Golden Sabre: 'Serrated/Deployable', since its design is intended to cause lacerations, like the Black Talon.

CorBon: 'JPT - Polymer Tip' since I see on their website they have introduced this technology into their already hot JHP loads.

Sorry, I also should have mentioned that these would be for .45ACP and 9mm guns. There's a lot of confusion as to the effectiveness of these kind of 'high tech' rounds. I'm looking for an effective HD round that will penetrate adequately, but not become ineffective due to the lack of velocity.

What say you on the Black Talons?

 

[AC's & 45's]

I know I may be opening up a can of worms here but...

I thank God i have never have to pull the trigger on another human scumbag or otherwise. I also hope I never have to.
Thank certainly does not mean I will even slightly hesitate if the need arises.

My preference for home and personal defense loads in my 1911 .45 acp are the standard 230 Hydra shoks. I use Corbons in my 9mm's. Those are the only two pistols I keep loaded.
I grab my .45 as I am going for my 870 Rem.

I am one of those "unimformed" hunters who use my .45 gov model to kill close range deer every chance I get. The outstanding performance on these deer gives me great confidence in the Hydra Shok loading in .45acp.

I know it may not be popular for me to use my 45 to hunt with.
It is not my primary hunting firearm. It is only used for 25 yards or less.

 

[RWK]

JHPs:
a) HydraShok
b) Golden Saber
c) Others

 

[PreserveFreedom]

Like Tamara, I vary what I shoot. I trust everything from HydroShok, to standard JHP, to FMJ, or LRN for home defense.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Rovert, I meant to hit serrated. My preference lies with those of C.R.Sam. Hence I carry 357 125gr golden Sabers.

 

[Rovert]

Hmmm...

Only one vote for Black Talons? Is that because they're just not available, or is there something I should know? I was under the impression that they were the most effective round there was.

 

[AR-10]

Can't vote, because the ammo I use depends on the gun I am putting it in.

I have a 1911 that does not fill a self defense niche at this time. I have tested it extensively and chosen Speer GoldDot 230gr. ammo for it.

I have a compact 1911 that does bedside duty and may be carried eventually. It does not feed the GoldDots smoothly, but seems to like Black Talons .230gr. (the original, not the Ranger SXT). Costs me $1.50 a round, but it gets what it wants.

.38 snubby gets Speer GoldDots.

.357 snubby, which I carry, gets Corbon .38 Special +P+ JHP.

.40S&W, which I tried to carry and could not, gets GoldDots 180gr.

I did some half fast testing with milk jugs and a capture box filled with various materials and a variety of different ammunition. I saw a lot of Golden Sabre and Hydra-shok lose their jacket along the way, so I ended up leaning toward the GoldDots. The Black Talon ammo is impressive to view after it is fired, but it is hard to find and expensive. I know a dealer that bought cases of it when it was pulled off the market. He has it available in several calibers, but it is spendy.

As far as voting goes, I would consider all the choices I spoke of to fall under the heading of JHP.

 

[blades67]

I use hollowpoints, Hydra-Shoks most often, because if they fail to open they perform like FMJ, but if they open they may do more damage and stop an aggressor faster. Also, I use the heavier bullet weights available. (i.e. 124 & 147 grain 9mm, 180 & 200 grain 10mm)

 

[CWL]

Rovert, don't believe most of the hype you read about "magic bullets" like the Black Talon being the most effective bullet there ever was. They, like all bullets did their damage because they were delivered to a vital part of the body at a depth to do the damage necessary.

That's all there is to know about secret of bullet technology. The truth is, most of today's bullets will do about the same, it doesn't matter which brand. Don't worry as much about them opening up as you should about putting them in the right place on the target. Practice is the secret.

By the way, what are those bullets you've posted, the ones on the left are definitely not Black Talons (Ranger SXTs).

 

[AR-10]

CWL,

The name of the cartridge is longer than the link provided below. Read all about it.


http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number2/article422.htm

 

[Rovert]

CWL, skeptic that I am, I definitely understand that the 'magic bullet' is proverbial. But new technology can very often seem 'magical' in many ways. Who would ever have forseen bullets with plastic in the tips?

I guess the question is more about understanding the comparative benefits among the latest crop of 'techno-bullets', and evaluating them against the 'oldies but goodies': ball and JHP.

Obviously, some rounds are more effective than others. The research I've read on Firearms Statistical does confirm a small margin of advantage to the Black Talon, roughly 3% - 5% more effective than regular hollow points. Doesn't sound like a lot, but I'll take it, thank you very much. To quote from their web page:

A bullet that expands to increase its diameter is able to contact and crush a greater area of tissue as it penetrates than a bullet which does not expand. This is the concept behind hollowpoint bullets... The last few inches of the wound track are the most important... This is where the police only Winchester Ranger Talon (formerly Black Talon and Ranger SXT) bullet departs from conventional expanding hollowpoint bullets. Ranger Talon adds an additional wounding mechanism: cutting... This additional cutting mechanism gives Ranger Talon the potential to be approximately 3% to 5% more effective than other expanding bullets of the same caliber. In one out of every 20-30 shootings, Ranger Talon might make a difference.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm#Black-Talon

I want the most effective home defense round as possible. Should the unthinkable occur, I want to be sure that the round I use will offer maximum effectiveness, but also confer any benefit of safety, if possible, such as the Glasers are said to offer.

If one accepts the concept of a hollow point as valid, for its inherent 'stopping power', then one must also open the door to the reality that there might be other technology out there that's more effective. Hence the question. Given the various brands of 'technobullets' out there, which one do you TFL'ers use, and why?