have we advanced????

[jar]

Last weekend I went out shooting with three of my older guns. I had my '41 P-38

my Colt New Service

and my S&W 1917.

It was a great day. These old POS models shot just like new ones. They were accurate, reliable and just plain fun to shoot. I was as happy as a puppy in a basket of just folded clothes straight from the dryer.

So here is my question.

Other than new materials (Polymer, new alloys, titanium, scandium, etc) and some new manufacturing methods that may, or may not, be improvements, what's new? Where has the ART of handguns improved in the last sixty years or so? Will today's handgun be as good as my 1917, P-38 or New Service when they are 60+ years old?

Look at the differences in a car from the first half of the last century compared to a car of today. With all the advances in the last half decade, why has there been NO real improvements in handguns?

 

[Bob Locke]

I think you hit it on the head: Materials have improved, but the basic designs are such that there's no real tinkering wanted or needed.

I'd say that the Glock "safe action" is probably the biggest "improvement" (depending on one's personal tastes) that's come along in some time.

Not sure how old the idea of porting a barrel for recoil reduction is.

Guess the old saw "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies pretty well.

 

[kpw]

Look at 2 of the more poular pistol designs, the 1911 and the BHP. Those are some old designs and still very effective today. I think most improvements have been in ergonomics of guns designed today along with user accessories. Some good, some bad. The big advances are in materials but the designs that have followed because of that are impressive. Glock established the lightweight polymer pistol as a real alternative to the standard materials of the time. True, they weren't the first to come out with one but the first to be comercially successful at it. Now just about every maker has one. Can you imagine a Kahr PM9 60 years ago, or a 12 oz. Scandium .357 J frame? The basics of gun design are still the same, tried and proven, but the packages they put those basics into are much more advanced than was ever thought possible 60 years ago. Still doesn't mean them old guns are obsolete, they are just old and that sure doesn't mean they are bad. BTW, I plan on having my Glocks 60 years from now, if not me, my kids, or theirs.

 

[Beowulf_93]

I agree, the fundamental John Browning autos & double action revolvers have only evolved with the advances in materials. We all know about the high-tech weapon prototypes seen in "Popular Mechanics" & such, but the fundamental truth is that little has or probably will change in cartridge based projectile weapons. Until research finds a portable energy source powerful enough to operate particle beam weapons, we will have guns as we know them.

 

[croyance]

Look at the differences in a car from the first half of the last century compared to a car of today.

Lets. The engine is basically the same. Sure, they are more fuel efficient and computer monitored. Operational theory hasn't changed. You have more creature comforts on board, and the controls are more ergonomic. There is a lot greater use of aluminum and plastics than before, so cars are lighter. They are also smaller. Because of the lesser use of iron & steel, todays cars are harder to rebuild and in some cases take impacts worse. On the other hand, there are more safety features on board, like front and side impact airbags.
Todays guns are more ergonomic. They are not only more easy to use, but can be had with "custom" features already built in. Better materials allows more power in smaller packages than was possible before. More safeties are also built in, though sometimes at the expense of a good trigger. You get more concealability with out modification.
But the method of propulsion has stayed the same. Comparison of ballistics in rifles and handguns show very little increase over the last 100 years.
So guns and cars are very much alike.

 

[Blackhawk]

Yes, we have. Both in materials and design. But the advancements aren't as dramatic as when the 1911 or Luger toggle top came on the scene.

One of the advancements is the light, simple DAO pistol where there is no storable primer ignition energy when the trigger is fully reset. Some may argue that's not an improvement over DA/SA pistols, which is tantamount to arguing that automatic transmissions in cars are not an improvement over manual boxes.

Two of the best examples are the Kel-Tec P-11 and P-32. They're each tops in their class, and if the steel parts were made in a first class machine shop to the standards of Walther of yore and lore, they would cost twice as much, still underprice their competition due to far fewer parts, and be much more reliable than any existing production gun today.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Marketing skills have fueled the demand for rehashes of old designs.

Without creating a demand for different, gun sales would only match population growth.

Improved materials ? Or planned obselescence ?

Sam

 

[kpw]

I'm glad for choices, created by marketing or whatever. I'd hate to have to shoot the same old pistol or the same old car as everyone else. Even with all these choices, wait until Christmas and people start posting their wish lists. Some guns do become obsolete for their intended purpose but that doesn't make them useless. I sure don't want to go to war with a Trapdoor Springfield and a SAA and as fine as the '03 Springfield and 1917 S&W are, I'd feel much better with an M16 and a Beretta. 1911s and BHPs are NOT obsolete by any means. Some things are just done right the first time!

 

[Brian Gibbons]

The BHP is still the combat issue handgun in the Canadian Forces. I have personaly seen some "still in service" pistols with remnants of the "Made In Canada" decal on the grip. The decal was used to signify the country of manufacter for pistols shipped overseas during WW II ...