Has anyone tried AOL 6 ?
- Thread starter ARshooter
- Start date
Brett Bellmore
New member
Are you kidding? I just spent an hour purging AOL4 AND 5 from my niece's computer; I'd be afraid to get AOL6 anywhere near a computer, it would probably write itself into the bios, and target you with a star wars prototype weapons platform if you tried to remove it. 
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Sic semper tyrannis!
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Sic semper tyrannis!
Read this and other threads regarding AOL.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29973
Then make a decision as to whether you really want to support them or not, no matter what "improvements" they have made.
------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29973
Then make a decision as to whether you really want to support them or not, no matter what "improvements" they have made.
------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.COM & www.handguncontrol.NET are being sued by Handgun Control, Inc.!
See the "cease and desist" letter here: www.cphv.com/lawsuit.html
ya'll might want to get rid of aol...not only are they anti-gun, but...
1) screwed up billing...don't worry though, they'll continue to bill ya long after you've had enough of them.
2) sorry service...keep getting bumped off? can't connect? call up, and they'll bump someone so that you can connect...or bump you so someone else can...
3)screwed up software, all the way around...
4)will sell your address to every spammer they can...and will do the same with your physical address
5) get the point yet?
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speak now, or forever hold your peace
1) screwed up billing...don't worry though, they'll continue to bill ya long after you've had enough of them.
2) sorry service...keep getting bumped off? can't connect? call up, and they'll bump someone so that you can connect...or bump you so someone else can...
3)screwed up software, all the way around...
4)will sell your address to every spammer they can...and will do the same with your physical address
5) get the point yet?
------------------
speak now, or forever hold your peace
BadMedicine
Moderator
Read tis on AOL cancelling gun web pages saying "it's no different than pornagraphy" and firing gun owning employees.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40189
I suggest AT&T world net. We have good luck with them. And as far as I know they aren't anti gun. I won't boycott antui-gun, until they start announcing it, and making it an issue, whatever anybody believes in their own home is their own business.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40189
I suggest AT&T world net. We have good luck with them. And as far as I know they aren't anti gun. I won't boycott antui-gun, until they start announcing it, and making it an issue, whatever anybody believes in their own home is their own business.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Dump AOL.
I'm sure AOL has pissed off some people, but I have had no problems with them. Billing is fine. I hardly ever get booted. In fact, I normally stay signed on all day (even when away from the puter) with no problems. If AOL was so anti-gun, I'm sure TJ's Custom SIG's web page would no longer be on it, but it is. The problems people experienced were probaby isolated problems that were for reasons that they have not said. AOL is not the typical computer geek ISP, but it is great for a lot of families who take advantage of a lot of the services it offers that others don't. BTW, AOL is not an ISP, it is an online content provider. I prefer it over most of the ISPs in the area since most of the ISPs only offer the bare bones; Dial up, web access, and E-mail. Some people complain about AOL's search engine, but anybody on AOL has access to the same search engines that everybody else has. AOL's rates are as good as if not better than a lot of ISPs.
Rob
Rob
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BadMedicine:
Read tis on AOL cancelling gun web pages saying "it's no different than pornagraphy" and firing gun owning employees.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40189
ATT is antigun , folks..... might wanna find another ISP and long distance carrier
I suggest AT&T world net. We have good luck with them. And as far as I know they aren't anti gun. I won't boycott antui-gun, until they start announcing it, and making it an issue, whatever anybody believes in their own home is their own business.[/quote]
Read tis on AOL cancelling gun web pages saying "it's no different than pornagraphy" and firing gun owning employees.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40189
ATT is antigun , folks..... might wanna find another ISP and long distance carrier
I suggest AT&T world net. We have good luck with them. And as far as I know they aren't anti gun. I won't boycott antui-gun, until they start announcing it, and making it an issue, whatever anybody believes in their own home is their own business.[/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by houndawg:
I'm sure AOL has pissed off some people, but I have had no problems with them. Billing is fine. I hardly ever get booted. In fact, I normally stay signed on all day (even when away from the puter) with no problems. If AOL was so anti-gun, I'm sure TJ's Custom SIG's web page would no longer be on it, but it is. The problems people experienced were probaby isolated problems that were for reasons that they have not said. AOL is not the typical computer geek ISP, but it is great for a lot of families who take advantage of a lot of the services it offers that others don't. BTW, AOL is not an ISP, it is an online content provider. I prefer it over most of the ISPs in the area since most of the ISPs only offer the bare bones; Dial up, web access, and E-mail. Some people complain about AOL's search engine, but anybody on AOL has access to the same search engines that everybody else has. AOL's rates are as good as if not better than a lot of ISPs.
Rob[/quote]
The MAJOR problem with AOL IS that you are paying to have you 2A rights taken away from you......
I'm sure AOL has pissed off some people, but I have had no problems with them. Billing is fine. I hardly ever get booted. In fact, I normally stay signed on all day (even when away from the puter) with no problems. If AOL was so anti-gun, I'm sure TJ's Custom SIG's web page would no longer be on it, but it is. The problems people experienced were probaby isolated problems that were for reasons that they have not said. AOL is not the typical computer geek ISP, but it is great for a lot of families who take advantage of a lot of the services it offers that others don't. BTW, AOL is not an ISP, it is an online content provider. I prefer it over most of the ISPs in the area since most of the ISPs only offer the bare bones; Dial up, web access, and E-mail. Some people complain about AOL's search engine, but anybody on AOL has access to the same search engines that everybody else has. AOL's rates are as good as if not better than a lot of ISPs.
Rob[/quote]
The MAJOR problem with AOL IS that you are paying to have you 2A rights taken away from you......
AOL Censors Out 2nd Amendment Rights
From the "Endangered Liberties" Television Program
The Internet is the only free uncensored system of communication in this country. Talk radio would come in a close second but there are many restrictions on the types of topics that can be covered, limitations on the number of times individuals can participate, restrictions from government on the radio stations themselves. And, of course, at any moment a talk station today carrying Rush Limbaugh and Dr. Laura and a host of popular local talk show folks can tomorrow turn into an acid rocker station with 24 hours of head-banging or what some claim is music.
That is why knowing who controls the Internet and what their policies are becomes very important. For the last year or so, the 800-pound gorilla of the Internet in the US is America On Line. With 22 million subscribers it dominates everyone else in the field. That is why it is extremely disturbing that AOL has adopted a policy that treats guns and ammunition the same as child pornography and pedophilia. If you try to buy or sell live ammo from your AOL account you will be monitored and eventually you will be warned and if you don't cease and desist, then your account will be closed.
Last year AOL sent an email to one of its customers, a licensed firearms dealer saying "We have become aware of a web page site that is part of your account. This web page violates Hometown AOL's Community Standards, which prohibits sexually explicit graphics, links to other sites which Hometown deems offensive, harassment, the use of vulgar or sexually oriented language, discussion of illegal activities, and/or other activities that may impair the enjoyment of our community's members. "We have placed a note of this incident on your account history and consider this a first warning. We have removed all the file(s) from your web page/ftp site. A second occurrence will result in termination of your account with no chance of reactivation."
AOL has made this policy arbitrarily and yet will not explain it to its subscribers. Child pornography is illegal. Guns and ammunition are protected under the Second Amendment. Yet AOL chooses to treat the two identically by refusing to allow any one of its subscribers to engage in his Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. In doing so, of course, AOL has followed in the path of a host of smaller Internet Service Providers who have the same policy.
When the Constitution provides that a practice is legal and yet someone hinders our ability to exercise that practice, that someone is setting himself up as an arbiter of our rights. From whom does AOL get this authority? Well, of course, they are a private business and they can adopt whatever practice they wish. But when you look at what companies AOL has swallowed up in the past year and those few that are left that don’t have such arbitrary policies, it is truly frightening. Unless someone with a lot of capital is willing to come in to start a new ISP and is going to be open to keeping the Second Amendment alive and well, there may come a time very soon when gun owners are simply shut out of every medium of communication. They have no television sympathetic to them. Radio, with the exception of short wave, is very restricted. Now many newspapers and magazines will not take ads for guns and ammunition and if they do, gun-grabbing organizations are encouraging readers to tear them out. The Internet was one place, for a short time, gun owners could go to exercise their freedom.
Yes, AOL is a business free to make its own policies. But customers are also free to make their own decisions as well. No person who respects the Second Amendment should subscribe to AOL unless they change their policies. There are millions of gun owners and other online services that will gladly accept new customers and the cost is in dollar amounts, not in freedoms.
If computer users take their freedom seriously and switch to another provider, AOL will feel it in the bottom line. At that point perhaps they may be willing to discuss the matter with their subscribers. At that point perhaps AOL will respect and preserve the rights of Americans to practice the right to keep and bear arms in practical terms. If not, perhaps AOL should find a more comfortable home elsewhere . . . say . . . in Havana or Beijing.
Lisa Dean is vice president of the Free Congress Foundation's Center for Technology Policy.
Contact: Lisa Dean 202.546.3000
For media inquiries, contact Robert McFarland 202.546.3000 / rmcfarland@freecongress.org
For other questions or comments, contact Angie Wheeler awheeler@freecongress.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Congress Foundation
A Non-Profit, Tax-Exempt Educational Organization
717 Second Street, NE
Washington, DC 20002
Tel: 202-546-3000
Fax: 202-543-5605
info@freecongress.org
Contributions are tax-deductible. Web Site by Gen-X Strategies
© 2000, Free Congress Foundation
® All rights reserved.
From the "Endangered Liberties" Television Program
The Internet is the only free uncensored system of communication in this country. Talk radio would come in a close second but there are many restrictions on the types of topics that can be covered, limitations on the number of times individuals can participate, restrictions from government on the radio stations themselves. And, of course, at any moment a talk station today carrying Rush Limbaugh and Dr. Laura and a host of popular local talk show folks can tomorrow turn into an acid rocker station with 24 hours of head-banging or what some claim is music.
That is why knowing who controls the Internet and what their policies are becomes very important. For the last year or so, the 800-pound gorilla of the Internet in the US is America On Line. With 22 million subscribers it dominates everyone else in the field. That is why it is extremely disturbing that AOL has adopted a policy that treats guns and ammunition the same as child pornography and pedophilia. If you try to buy or sell live ammo from your AOL account you will be monitored and eventually you will be warned and if you don't cease and desist, then your account will be closed.
Last year AOL sent an email to one of its customers, a licensed firearms dealer saying "We have become aware of a web page site that is part of your account. This web page violates Hometown AOL's Community Standards, which prohibits sexually explicit graphics, links to other sites which Hometown deems offensive, harassment, the use of vulgar or sexually oriented language, discussion of illegal activities, and/or other activities that may impair the enjoyment of our community's members. "We have placed a note of this incident on your account history and consider this a first warning. We have removed all the file(s) from your web page/ftp site. A second occurrence will result in termination of your account with no chance of reactivation."
AOL has made this policy arbitrarily and yet will not explain it to its subscribers. Child pornography is illegal. Guns and ammunition are protected under the Second Amendment. Yet AOL chooses to treat the two identically by refusing to allow any one of its subscribers to engage in his Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. In doing so, of course, AOL has followed in the path of a host of smaller Internet Service Providers who have the same policy.
When the Constitution provides that a practice is legal and yet someone hinders our ability to exercise that practice, that someone is setting himself up as an arbiter of our rights. From whom does AOL get this authority? Well, of course, they are a private business and they can adopt whatever practice they wish. But when you look at what companies AOL has swallowed up in the past year and those few that are left that don’t have such arbitrary policies, it is truly frightening. Unless someone with a lot of capital is willing to come in to start a new ISP and is going to be open to keeping the Second Amendment alive and well, there may come a time very soon when gun owners are simply shut out of every medium of communication. They have no television sympathetic to them. Radio, with the exception of short wave, is very restricted. Now many newspapers and magazines will not take ads for guns and ammunition and if they do, gun-grabbing organizations are encouraging readers to tear them out. The Internet was one place, for a short time, gun owners could go to exercise their freedom.
Yes, AOL is a business free to make its own policies. But customers are also free to make their own decisions as well. No person who respects the Second Amendment should subscribe to AOL unless they change their policies. There are millions of gun owners and other online services that will gladly accept new customers and the cost is in dollar amounts, not in freedoms.
If computer users take their freedom seriously and switch to another provider, AOL will feel it in the bottom line. At that point perhaps they may be willing to discuss the matter with their subscribers. At that point perhaps AOL will respect and preserve the rights of Americans to practice the right to keep and bear arms in practical terms. If not, perhaps AOL should find a more comfortable home elsewhere . . . say . . . in Havana or Beijing.
Lisa Dean is vice president of the Free Congress Foundation's Center for Technology Policy.
Contact: Lisa Dean 202.546.3000
For media inquiries, contact Robert McFarland 202.546.3000 / rmcfarland@freecongress.org
For other questions or comments, contact Angie Wheeler awheeler@freecongress.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Congress Foundation
A Non-Profit, Tax-Exempt Educational Organization
717 Second Street, NE
Washington, DC 20002
Tel: 202-546-3000
Fax: 202-543-5605
info@freecongress.org
Contributions are tax-deductible. Web Site by Gen-X Strategies
© 2000, Free Congress Foundation
® All rights reserved.
> FYI, AOL, Compuserve, Gateway.net, & Netscape are working to destroy your
> gun rights. See below. Perhaps more productive than dumping them would
be
> to stay on and make them wish they'd never heard of gun control. For
> example, troll AOL's message boards and post messages telling everyone how
> easy it is to get free internet service. That way you punish AOL
> economically for trampling on your rights, and move their existing clients
> to an ISP that won't brainwash them, while YOU stay on and post lots of
> pro-self-defense messages on their political bulletin boards. I'm sure
> folks will come up with other ideas too.
>
> www.altavista.com gives away free internet service, as does www.netzero.net
> and probably others. Of the two, I prefer altavista, but their email is
> not as simple as netzero, which will probably appeal more to the AOL user.
> AOL users can download and use Netzero risk free, without giving up AOL
> until they're confident that Netzero works for them. Check it out and pass
> it on to AOL's overcharged clients.
>
> Russ Howard
>
> >Gun Week -AOL.txt
> >
> >Secret Web Behind AOL's Anti-Gun Policy
> >
> >by Bob Lesmeister
> >(Published in The New Gun Week, Aug. 20, 2000)
> >
> > "Hello, this is Jonathan. May I help you?"
> > "Can I speak to someone about America Online's policy of not
allowing
> >individuals to buy or sell guns and ammunition through its web site?"
> > "That's our policy."
> > "So, you equate guns and ammo with explicit sexual material and
illegal
> >narcotics?"
> > "Yes."
> > "But guns and ammo are legal to sell. There's no law against them."
> > "The problem is we don't know who's selling and who's buying. It
> > could be
> >anybody. We wouldn't know if they were dealers or not."
> > "So, you will allow dealers to sell to other dealers?"
> > "No, we don't allow that."
> > "Who can I speak to about this matter?"
> > "There is no one."
> > "Well, who came up with this policy?"
> > "That would probably be our legal department."
> > "Let me talk to them."
> > "You can't. They only talk to other lawyers."
> > "You mean I can't talk to them?"
> > "I can switch you to the operator and you can see what happens."
> > "You mean she can connect me with the legal department?"
> > "No, you'll get a voice mail where you can leave a message."
> > "Who's in charge of this area of AOL?"
> > "Keith Jenkins."
> > "May I speak to him?"
> > "No, I answer his calls."
> > "Is there any way I can talk to him? Do you have a number for him?"
> > "He has a direct line, but you can't use it."
> > "Why?"
> > "Because you have to talk to me."
> > "So, there's no way I can talk to him at all?"
> > "No."
> > "What about Gateway and Compuserve? As AOL partners, do they have
> >the same policy of not allowing guns and ammo for sale on their sites?"
> > "Yes, they all follow AOL."
> > "They can't independently decide for themselves what they can and
can't
> >offer on their sites as far as guns and ammo go?"
> > "No."
> > "Can I speak to Mr. Jenkins?"
> > "No!"
> > No, this is not an Abbott & Costello routine. The above
conversation
> > was
> >the result of an attempt to get a clarification from America Online
> >concerning
> >their policy of not allowing anyone to buy or sell firearms and
ammunition on
> >their site and the sites they own. If you advertise firearms or
ammunition on
> >a site served by AOL, you will eventually get a message from the company
> >that states you are violating AOL's community standards. Unfortunately,
> >AOL classifies firearms and ammo in the same category as pornography,
hate
> >speech, illegal drugs, and unlawful activities.
> > The same is true for AOL-owned Compuserve and service partner
> >Gateway.net. None of them, however, make that clear when you log onto
> >their homepage or sign up to use them as your Internet Service Provider
> >(ISP). If you look hard enough and dig through all of the do's and
> >don't's, you
> >will find that only Gateway.net actually lists firearms and ammunition as
> >prohibited products. AOL and Compuserve send out nasty e-mails when they
> >find someone buying or selling firearms through their sites. And if you
don't
> >cease and desist, they cut you off-permanently.
> > Curiously enough, there is never a mention of liability from any of
the
> >above-mentioned ISPs. One would think that would be the driving force
> >behind the ban on firearms and ammo sales, but evidently that is not the
> >case. To get a definitive answer from AOL and its subsidiaries is nearly
> >impossible. No one from AOL will answer any questions on why they won't
> >allow the legal advertisements of firearms and ammunition. This
mysterious
> >wall of silence, or obstinance, is frustrating to firearms owners and
> >firearms
> >industry people alike. But the mystery clears once you look at several
> >factors
> >that have shaped AOL's anti-rights stand.
> > About a year ago, AOL made a big deal about its alliance with CBS.
An
> >AOL/CBS joint announcement proclaimed, "CBS News will be guaranteed a
> >major and ongoing presence throughout AOL . . . America Online has also
> >committed to showcase the talents of CBS News corespondents, producers
> >and editors."
> > CBS pledged to hype AOL on its news programs such as "48 Hours" and
> >"60 Minutes." These programs have been notorious over the years for
> >demonizing honest gunowners and the firearms industry. It didn't take
long
> >for that prejudice to work its way into AOL's policies.
> > Now, the big news is the Time-Warner/AOL merger. Let's not forget
that
> >CNN is part of Time-Warner and Ted Turner is one of the most fanatical of
> >Clinton supporters. He also hands over large bucks to the Democratic
> >National Committee to pursue their anti-rights agenda.
> > With over 22 million users on AOL, what kind of damage can the
anti-
> >rights corporations like CBS and CNN do? Lots. Both CBS and CNN are not
> >above fabricating stories, or breaking the law for that matter. Remember
the
> >infamous "48 Hours" segment when the network hired a goober to illegally
> >convert an AK-47 from semi- to full-auto? Robert W. Pittman, president
and
> >chief operating officer of American Online, was once the CEO of Century
21,
> >one of the sponsors of that notorious "48 Hours" program.
> >
> >'Free Flow'
> >
> > The Internet is the only medium left that really allows the free
> > flow of
> >expression and goods, not only nationally, but worldwide. With a powerful
> >monopoly such as AOL, that free flow of ideas becomes so much narrower
and
> >eventually it could collapse into "information" that only AOL thinks you
> >should have. AOL claims it supports a free market, yet it has been buying
out
> >its competition, while crying to the government to intervene to keep its
> >competitors from threatening the company's profits. It is now threatening
to
> >sue to keep its exclusionary power over its messaging software.
> > Microsoft and Yahoo have been attempting to allow its members to
> >"message" their friends on AOL, but AOL is blocking this free flow of
> >information. One can't really expect a fair deal from AOL on the subject
of
> >firearms when you consider the hypocrisy. As it was cheering the
> >government's assault on Microsoft for squashing its competition, AOL was
> >busy completing its acquisition of Compuserve, its chief rival in the ISP
> >arena. It then acquired Netscape, Microsoft's major competitor in the
land of
> >browsers.
> > Firearms and ammunition sales and advertisements, AOL claims,
doesn't
> >meet their community standards. The company claims to preserve a safe
> >"net" and the privacy of subscribers. That's publicly, of course.
> >Privately, the
> >company lobbies otherwise. With 22 million subscribers, AOL collects an
> >enormous amount of information on individuals, which is one of the
reasons it
> >has joined the financial industry in its attempts to erode consumer
privacy.
> > Last year, Congress passed the Financial Services Modernization
Act.
> >This allows banks, brokerage firms and insurance companies to share
> >personal records of consumers without first obtaining their permission. A
> >provision in the law, however, stipulated that if a state law provided
more
> >stringent privacy protection, it would supercede the federal law.
> > Here's where AOL shows its true colors. Sheila Kuehl, an
assemblywoman
> >in California, introduced legislation to provide much more privacy
protection
> >than the federal law allowed. AOL and its newly acquired subsidiary,
> >Netscape, lobbied against it. They don't want consumers to be able to
give
> >their consent before their private financial information is bandied about
> >between AOL entities.
> > In a section they call Online Democracy, AOL has partnered with the
> >American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) in a campaign they call
> >BeAVoter.org. This is supposed to be a nonpartisan campaign to get people
to
> >register to vote, but AARP is well-known to pro-rights lovers as
> >anti-firearms
> >as any "nonpartisan" organization can get.
> > Also, in its Online Democracy compartment, AOL has something they
call
> >Government Guide. According to AOL, "Government Guide archives and
> >indexes data from thousands of government web sites into one practical
> >portal, organizing content by category and making it searchable based on
> >consumer needs."
> > Pretty scary, huh? They gather the information, sort it, organize
it,
> >categorize it and then feed it to you through "one practical portal."
> >Instead of
> >searching through the world wide web as a free bird, you are coerced by
AOL
> >into using their "one portal" to get what they want to give you.
> >
> >'PACT'
> >
> > Another program AOL pushes in its Online Democracy section is PACT
> >(Parents And Children Together), To Stop Violence. AOL encourages adults,
> >teens and children to sign non-violence pledges and these pledges can be
> >printed out in certificate form. Since we've already determined that AOL
> >equates the sale of guns and ammo with violence and hate, PACT becomes a
> >program to further poison the minds of children and adults against the
> >wholesome sport of recreational shooting and hunting. [AND SELF-DEFENSE!!
> >(Tom)]
> > AOL also co-chairs GetNetWise, an industry-wide resource that
features
> >online tools, including software, to filter explicit and violent content.
> >Here
> >again, since AOL rates firearms and ammo in the same category as explicit
> >sexual graphics and violence, GetNetWise is perfect for filtering out
pro-
> >rights issues and products.
> > AOL's programs, policies and operating ethics are probably best
> > explained
> >by learning something of the people behind the AOL logo. This may
enlighten
> >as to why AOL wants all of its subscribers to use its "one portal" to get
> >their
> >information and exchange ideas, so long as they adhere to AOL's community
> >standards. Those standards may not even include the beliefs expressed in
our
> >Bill of Rights. According to Time-Warner chief executive Gerald Levin, it
may
> >be time for media corporations to take over the responsibilities of
> >government!
> > Levin warns against American cultural imperialism because there's
no
> >"countervailing force," and he sees this as a "significant problem."
Levin
> >has a
> >very eerie vision for the future of the Internet.
> > "We're going to need to have these corporations redefined as
> > instruments
> >of public service because they have the resources, they have the reach,
they
> >have the skill base, and maybe there's a new generation coming up that
> >wants to achieve meaning in that context and have an impact, and that may
> >be a more efficient way to deal with society's problems than
governments,"
> >Levin said on CNN in January.
> > In a cyber letter sent to AOL subscribers recently, AOL's chief
> > executive,
> >Steve Case, claimed, "The next century will be defined by the integration
of
> >the Internet into people's lives, into society and into our global
economy."
> >
> >Anti-Gun Links
> >
> > What about the other principal players at AOL? How may they be
> >directing AOL's policies concerning firearms and ammunition?
> > - Robert Pittman, president & COO, created MTV and served as a
> >director for MTV Networks. Note that MTV has always had an anti-firearms
> >bias and is now promoting their own anti-firearms agenda masquerading as
> >an anti-violence program.
> > - Jonathan Sacks, senior vice president and general manager, AOL
> >Service, founded VirtualCity magazine, a joint venture with Newsweek
(long
> >known for its anti-firearms slant). He also served as a reporter for the
> >Miami
> >Herald and associate business editor for the Fort Lauderdale
Sun-Sentinel,
> >both virulent anti-firearms newspapers.
> > - Marshall Cohen, senior vice president, Brand Development; prior
to
> >joining AOL, he was president of his own media research and consulting
> >company whose clients included such anti-gun organizations as Disney, ABC
> >cable networks, CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS. He also spent 12 years at MTV
> >Networks.
> > - George Vradenburg III, senior vice president, Global & Strategic
> > Policy,
> >previously served as senior vice president and general counsel of CBS
Inc.
> > - Kathy Bushkin, senior vice president and chief communications
> > officer,
> >from 1976 through 1984 served as Sen. Gary Hart's (D-CO) press secretary.
> >In 1984, she served on the senator's presidential campaign. Hart has
always
> >pursued the anti-firearms agenda and some of it may have rubbed off on
> >Bushkin.
> > - Mayo S. Stuntz Jr., COO, Interactive Services Group, previously
> > served
> >as senior vice president, business management and development of MTV
> >Networks. Also served as director, operational planning for NBC.
> > - Janice Brandt, president, Marketing, has been involved in
campaigns
> >for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), Greenpeace, Sen.
> >Ted Kennedy (D-MD), Sen. John Glenn (D-OH), Rep. Ron Dellums (D-CA)
> >and the California Democratic Party. We all know of Glenn's and Kennedy's
> >anti-rights stands, but consider the other groups Brandt has supported.
> > Greenpeace is a sworn enemy of firearms owners and hunters, and its
> >members will gladly break the law to press their agenda.
> > PETA was born out of the writings of Peter Singer, the founder of
the
> >animal rights movement. Singer advocates infanticide for babies born with
> >imperfections. He believes that medically defenseless people should be
killed
> >if it will enhance the lives of their families and society as a whole. He
> >also
> >peddles the piddle that a person's life is no more important than that of
> >a rat
> >or a rattlesnake. He's also the guy who helped form The Great Ape
Project,
> >which is attempting to extend personhood and legal rights to the great
apes.
> > Dellums addressed the opening session of the World Peace Council's
> > World
> >Conference on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. The WPC has been classified by
> >the FBI as the former Soviet Union's largest and most active propaganda
> >front organization. He also demanded Nuremburg-type war crime trials for
> >US soldiers.
> > In 1980, Dellums addressed a Berkeley symposium declaring, "We
should
> >totally dismantle every intelligence agency in this country piece by
piece,
> >brick by brick, nail by nail." In 1982, he voted against legislation that
> >would
> >make it a felony to publicly expose the identities of US intelligence
> >officers,
> >agents and sources, the result of which, would have been the death
warrant
> >for all of them. In 1983, Dellums called the liberation of Grenada
"nothing
> >less than a crime against humanity, planned and executed by people who
> >deserve to be condemned as war criminals."
> > During the liberation of Grenada from Marxist dictator Maurice
Bishop,
> >US forces came across a letter sent to Bishop written by Dellums' aide
> >Carlottia Scott. In part the letter stated, ". . . (Dellums) is really
> >hooked on
> >you and Grenada and doesn't want anything to happen to building the
> >Revolution and making it strong. He really admires you as a person and
even
> >more so as a leader. . . That only other person I know of that he
expresses
> >such admiration for is Fidel." Dellums is dedicated to the abolishment of
> >privately owned firearms.
> > Once you strip away AOL's corporate double talk and bright shine,
they
> >try to put on their reasons for controlling the Internet the way they do,
and
> >you see a different story. Revealed are the corporate partners with
lifelong
> >anti-firearms agendas and company officials with backgrounds seeded in
gun
> >control.
> > So far, there is no evidence that AOL has restricted or interfered
> > with the
> >exchange of gun-related political communications. Anyone concerned about
> >AOL can switch to another ISPs, many of them free.
> gun rights. See below. Perhaps more productive than dumping them would
be
> to stay on and make them wish they'd never heard of gun control. For
> example, troll AOL's message boards and post messages telling everyone how
> easy it is to get free internet service. That way you punish AOL
> economically for trampling on your rights, and move their existing clients
> to an ISP that won't brainwash them, while YOU stay on and post lots of
> pro-self-defense messages on their political bulletin boards. I'm sure
> folks will come up with other ideas too.
>
> www.altavista.com gives away free internet service, as does www.netzero.net
> and probably others. Of the two, I prefer altavista, but their email is
> not as simple as netzero, which will probably appeal more to the AOL user.
> AOL users can download and use Netzero risk free, without giving up AOL
> until they're confident that Netzero works for them. Check it out and pass
> it on to AOL's overcharged clients.
>
> Russ Howard
>
> >Gun Week -AOL.txt
> >
> >Secret Web Behind AOL's Anti-Gun Policy
> >
> >by Bob Lesmeister
> >(Published in The New Gun Week, Aug. 20, 2000)
> >
> > "Hello, this is Jonathan. May I help you?"
> > "Can I speak to someone about America Online's policy of not
allowing
> >individuals to buy or sell guns and ammunition through its web site?"
> > "That's our policy."
> > "So, you equate guns and ammo with explicit sexual material and
illegal
> >narcotics?"
> > "Yes."
> > "But guns and ammo are legal to sell. There's no law against them."
> > "The problem is we don't know who's selling and who's buying. It
> > could be
> >anybody. We wouldn't know if they were dealers or not."
> > "So, you will allow dealers to sell to other dealers?"
> > "No, we don't allow that."
> > "Who can I speak to about this matter?"
> > "There is no one."
> > "Well, who came up with this policy?"
> > "That would probably be our legal department."
> > "Let me talk to them."
> > "You can't. They only talk to other lawyers."
> > "You mean I can't talk to them?"
> > "I can switch you to the operator and you can see what happens."
> > "You mean she can connect me with the legal department?"
> > "No, you'll get a voice mail where you can leave a message."
> > "Who's in charge of this area of AOL?"
> > "Keith Jenkins."
> > "May I speak to him?"
> > "No, I answer his calls."
> > "Is there any way I can talk to him? Do you have a number for him?"
> > "He has a direct line, but you can't use it."
> > "Why?"
> > "Because you have to talk to me."
> > "So, there's no way I can talk to him at all?"
> > "No."
> > "What about Gateway and Compuserve? As AOL partners, do they have
> >the same policy of not allowing guns and ammo for sale on their sites?"
> > "Yes, they all follow AOL."
> > "They can't independently decide for themselves what they can and
can't
> >offer on their sites as far as guns and ammo go?"
> > "No."
> > "Can I speak to Mr. Jenkins?"
> > "No!"
> > No, this is not an Abbott & Costello routine. The above
conversation
> > was
> >the result of an attempt to get a clarification from America Online
> >concerning
> >their policy of not allowing anyone to buy or sell firearms and
ammunition on
> >their site and the sites they own. If you advertise firearms or
ammunition on
> >a site served by AOL, you will eventually get a message from the company
> >that states you are violating AOL's community standards. Unfortunately,
> >AOL classifies firearms and ammo in the same category as pornography,
hate
> >speech, illegal drugs, and unlawful activities.
> > The same is true for AOL-owned Compuserve and service partner
> >Gateway.net. None of them, however, make that clear when you log onto
> >their homepage or sign up to use them as your Internet Service Provider
> >(ISP). If you look hard enough and dig through all of the do's and
> >don't's, you
> >will find that only Gateway.net actually lists firearms and ammunition as
> >prohibited products. AOL and Compuserve send out nasty e-mails when they
> >find someone buying or selling firearms through their sites. And if you
don't
> >cease and desist, they cut you off-permanently.
> > Curiously enough, there is never a mention of liability from any of
the
> >above-mentioned ISPs. One would think that would be the driving force
> >behind the ban on firearms and ammo sales, but evidently that is not the
> >case. To get a definitive answer from AOL and its subsidiaries is nearly
> >impossible. No one from AOL will answer any questions on why they won't
> >allow the legal advertisements of firearms and ammunition. This
mysterious
> >wall of silence, or obstinance, is frustrating to firearms owners and
> >firearms
> >industry people alike. But the mystery clears once you look at several
> >factors
> >that have shaped AOL's anti-rights stand.
> > About a year ago, AOL made a big deal about its alliance with CBS.
An
> >AOL/CBS joint announcement proclaimed, "CBS News will be guaranteed a
> >major and ongoing presence throughout AOL . . . America Online has also
> >committed to showcase the talents of CBS News corespondents, producers
> >and editors."
> > CBS pledged to hype AOL on its news programs such as "48 Hours" and
> >"60 Minutes." These programs have been notorious over the years for
> >demonizing honest gunowners and the firearms industry. It didn't take
long
> >for that prejudice to work its way into AOL's policies.
> > Now, the big news is the Time-Warner/AOL merger. Let's not forget
that
> >CNN is part of Time-Warner and Ted Turner is one of the most fanatical of
> >Clinton supporters. He also hands over large bucks to the Democratic
> >National Committee to pursue their anti-rights agenda.
> > With over 22 million users on AOL, what kind of damage can the
anti-
> >rights corporations like CBS and CNN do? Lots. Both CBS and CNN are not
> >above fabricating stories, or breaking the law for that matter. Remember
the
> >infamous "48 Hours" segment when the network hired a goober to illegally
> >convert an AK-47 from semi- to full-auto? Robert W. Pittman, president
and
> >chief operating officer of American Online, was once the CEO of Century
21,
> >one of the sponsors of that notorious "48 Hours" program.
> >
> >'Free Flow'
> >
> > The Internet is the only medium left that really allows the free
> > flow of
> >expression and goods, not only nationally, but worldwide. With a powerful
> >monopoly such as AOL, that free flow of ideas becomes so much narrower
and
> >eventually it could collapse into "information" that only AOL thinks you
> >should have. AOL claims it supports a free market, yet it has been buying
out
> >its competition, while crying to the government to intervene to keep its
> >competitors from threatening the company's profits. It is now threatening
to
> >sue to keep its exclusionary power over its messaging software.
> > Microsoft and Yahoo have been attempting to allow its members to
> >"message" their friends on AOL, but AOL is blocking this free flow of
> >information. One can't really expect a fair deal from AOL on the subject
of
> >firearms when you consider the hypocrisy. As it was cheering the
> >government's assault on Microsoft for squashing its competition, AOL was
> >busy completing its acquisition of Compuserve, its chief rival in the ISP
> >arena. It then acquired Netscape, Microsoft's major competitor in the
land of
> >browsers.
> > Firearms and ammunition sales and advertisements, AOL claims,
doesn't
> >meet their community standards. The company claims to preserve a safe
> >"net" and the privacy of subscribers. That's publicly, of course.
> >Privately, the
> >company lobbies otherwise. With 22 million subscribers, AOL collects an
> >enormous amount of information on individuals, which is one of the
reasons it
> >has joined the financial industry in its attempts to erode consumer
privacy.
> > Last year, Congress passed the Financial Services Modernization
Act.
> >This allows banks, brokerage firms and insurance companies to share
> >personal records of consumers without first obtaining their permission. A
> >provision in the law, however, stipulated that if a state law provided
more
> >stringent privacy protection, it would supercede the federal law.
> > Here's where AOL shows its true colors. Sheila Kuehl, an
assemblywoman
> >in California, introduced legislation to provide much more privacy
protection
> >than the federal law allowed. AOL and its newly acquired subsidiary,
> >Netscape, lobbied against it. They don't want consumers to be able to
give
> >their consent before their private financial information is bandied about
> >between AOL entities.
> > In a section they call Online Democracy, AOL has partnered with the
> >American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) in a campaign they call
> >BeAVoter.org. This is supposed to be a nonpartisan campaign to get people
to
> >register to vote, but AARP is well-known to pro-rights lovers as
> >anti-firearms
> >as any "nonpartisan" organization can get.
> > Also, in its Online Democracy compartment, AOL has something they
call
> >Government Guide. According to AOL, "Government Guide archives and
> >indexes data from thousands of government web sites into one practical
> >portal, organizing content by category and making it searchable based on
> >consumer needs."
> > Pretty scary, huh? They gather the information, sort it, organize
it,
> >categorize it and then feed it to you through "one practical portal."
> >Instead of
> >searching through the world wide web as a free bird, you are coerced by
AOL
> >into using their "one portal" to get what they want to give you.
> >
> >'PACT'
> >
> > Another program AOL pushes in its Online Democracy section is PACT
> >(Parents And Children Together), To Stop Violence. AOL encourages adults,
> >teens and children to sign non-violence pledges and these pledges can be
> >printed out in certificate form. Since we've already determined that AOL
> >equates the sale of guns and ammo with violence and hate, PACT becomes a
> >program to further poison the minds of children and adults against the
> >wholesome sport of recreational shooting and hunting. [AND SELF-DEFENSE!!
> >(Tom)]
> > AOL also co-chairs GetNetWise, an industry-wide resource that
features
> >online tools, including software, to filter explicit and violent content.
> >Here
> >again, since AOL rates firearms and ammo in the same category as explicit
> >sexual graphics and violence, GetNetWise is perfect for filtering out
pro-
> >rights issues and products.
> > AOL's programs, policies and operating ethics are probably best
> > explained
> >by learning something of the people behind the AOL logo. This may
enlighten
> >as to why AOL wants all of its subscribers to use its "one portal" to get
> >their
> >information and exchange ideas, so long as they adhere to AOL's community
> >standards. Those standards may not even include the beliefs expressed in
our
> >Bill of Rights. According to Time-Warner chief executive Gerald Levin, it
may
> >be time for media corporations to take over the responsibilities of
> >government!
> > Levin warns against American cultural imperialism because there's
no
> >"countervailing force," and he sees this as a "significant problem."
Levin
> >has a
> >very eerie vision for the future of the Internet.
> > "We're going to need to have these corporations redefined as
> > instruments
> >of public service because they have the resources, they have the reach,
they
> >have the skill base, and maybe there's a new generation coming up that
> >wants to achieve meaning in that context and have an impact, and that may
> >be a more efficient way to deal with society's problems than
governments,"
> >Levin said on CNN in January.
> > In a cyber letter sent to AOL subscribers recently, AOL's chief
> > executive,
> >Steve Case, claimed, "The next century will be defined by the integration
of
> >the Internet into people's lives, into society and into our global
economy."
> >
> >Anti-Gun Links
> >
> > What about the other principal players at AOL? How may they be
> >directing AOL's policies concerning firearms and ammunition?
> > - Robert Pittman, president & COO, created MTV and served as a
> >director for MTV Networks. Note that MTV has always had an anti-firearms
> >bias and is now promoting their own anti-firearms agenda masquerading as
> >an anti-violence program.
> > - Jonathan Sacks, senior vice president and general manager, AOL
> >Service, founded VirtualCity magazine, a joint venture with Newsweek
(long
> >known for its anti-firearms slant). He also served as a reporter for the
> >Miami
> >Herald and associate business editor for the Fort Lauderdale
Sun-Sentinel,
> >both virulent anti-firearms newspapers.
> > - Marshall Cohen, senior vice president, Brand Development; prior
to
> >joining AOL, he was president of his own media research and consulting
> >company whose clients included such anti-gun organizations as Disney, ABC
> >cable networks, CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS. He also spent 12 years at MTV
> >Networks.
> > - George Vradenburg III, senior vice president, Global & Strategic
> > Policy,
> >previously served as senior vice president and general counsel of CBS
Inc.
> > - Kathy Bushkin, senior vice president and chief communications
> > officer,
> >from 1976 through 1984 served as Sen. Gary Hart's (D-CO) press secretary.
> >In 1984, she served on the senator's presidential campaign. Hart has
always
> >pursued the anti-firearms agenda and some of it may have rubbed off on
> >Bushkin.
> > - Mayo S. Stuntz Jr., COO, Interactive Services Group, previously
> > served
> >as senior vice president, business management and development of MTV
> >Networks. Also served as director, operational planning for NBC.
> > - Janice Brandt, president, Marketing, has been involved in
campaigns
> >for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), Greenpeace, Sen.
> >Ted Kennedy (D-MD), Sen. John Glenn (D-OH), Rep. Ron Dellums (D-CA)
> >and the California Democratic Party. We all know of Glenn's and Kennedy's
> >anti-rights stands, but consider the other groups Brandt has supported.
> > Greenpeace is a sworn enemy of firearms owners and hunters, and its
> >members will gladly break the law to press their agenda.
> > PETA was born out of the writings of Peter Singer, the founder of
the
> >animal rights movement. Singer advocates infanticide for babies born with
> >imperfections. He believes that medically defenseless people should be
killed
> >if it will enhance the lives of their families and society as a whole. He
> >also
> >peddles the piddle that a person's life is no more important than that of
> >a rat
> >or a rattlesnake. He's also the guy who helped form The Great Ape
Project,
> >which is attempting to extend personhood and legal rights to the great
apes.
> > Dellums addressed the opening session of the World Peace Council's
> > World
> >Conference on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. The WPC has been classified by
> >the FBI as the former Soviet Union's largest and most active propaganda
> >front organization. He also demanded Nuremburg-type war crime trials for
> >US soldiers.
> > In 1980, Dellums addressed a Berkeley symposium declaring, "We
should
> >totally dismantle every intelligence agency in this country piece by
piece,
> >brick by brick, nail by nail." In 1982, he voted against legislation that
> >would
> >make it a felony to publicly expose the identities of US intelligence
> >officers,
> >agents and sources, the result of which, would have been the death
warrant
> >for all of them. In 1983, Dellums called the liberation of Grenada
"nothing
> >less than a crime against humanity, planned and executed by people who
> >deserve to be condemned as war criminals."
> > During the liberation of Grenada from Marxist dictator Maurice
Bishop,
> >US forces came across a letter sent to Bishop written by Dellums' aide
> >Carlottia Scott. In part the letter stated, ". . . (Dellums) is really
> >hooked on
> >you and Grenada and doesn't want anything to happen to building the
> >Revolution and making it strong. He really admires you as a person and
even
> >more so as a leader. . . That only other person I know of that he
expresses
> >such admiration for is Fidel." Dellums is dedicated to the abolishment of
> >privately owned firearms.
> > Once you strip away AOL's corporate double talk and bright shine,
they
> >try to put on their reasons for controlling the Internet the way they do,
and
> >you see a different story. Revealed are the corporate partners with
lifelong
> >anti-firearms agendas and company officials with backgrounds seeded in
gun
> >control.
> > So far, there is no evidence that AOL has restricted or interfered
> > with the
> >exchange of gun-related political communications. Anyone concerned about
> >AOL can switch to another ISPs, many of them free.
http://www.hodgdon.com/news/aol.htm#top
The following article appeared in the Shotgun News magazine -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
AOL Calls Guns Pornography
A SHOTGUN NEWS columnist found himself put in the smut merchant category by
the Internet colossus.
By Bill Clede
Jim Supica, a SHOTGUN NEWS columnist familiar to readers of this
publication, operates Old Town Station Ltd., a dealer in antique and
collectable firearms. He holds a Federal Firearms License for this purpose.
In short, he runs a clean, above-board, and legal business.
That is, he thought he did until America Online (AOL) summarily removed his
web site from their system and sent email to his account address, which is
shared by his wife and children.
AOL wrote, "We have become aware of a web page site that is part of your
account. This web page violates Hometown AOL's Community Standards, which
prohibits sexually explicit graphics, links to other sites which Hometown
deems offensive, harassment, the use of vulgar or sexually oriented
language, discussion of illegal activities, and/or other activities that may
impair the enjoyment of our community's members.
"We have placed a note of this incident on your account history and consider
this a first warning. We have removed all the file(s) from your web page/ftp
site. A second occurrence will result in termination of your account with no
chance of reactivation."
Huh? I looked at Jim's site, now housed at www.armchairgunshow.com, and the
only obscene thing I saw were the four-figure prices these guns carry. I am
not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but calling an innocent person a
pornographer sounds a lot like libel to me.
"I've heard from other dealers who got the same form letter and no-warning
boot from AOL," Supica said. "I got a bunch of emails from litigious types
who suggested a lawsuit, plus an equal number from folks saying AOL has a
right to edit their service as they see fit."
He's right there. Services such as America Online, Microsoft Network,
Prodigy and CompuServe are not common carriers, nor publications in and of
themselves, although they provide the means by which others publish web
sites and periodicals.
At about the same time as Jim's site was scrubbed by AOL, he got a message
in CompuServe's Firearms Forum that CompuServe had decreed the sale of
firearms, even the legal sale of firearms, would no longer be allowed on the
system. GoOutdoorsGroup Administrator Tony Mandile said, "The move was
basically CYA. Obviously a headline reading, "Student Kills 10 With Online
Purchase" wasn't something their legal department would like to see."
When I asked CompuServe what they had actually said, they refused to
comment. They referred me back to the Forum Administrator.
You should know that CompuServe is owned by AOL, but is operated separately.
Yeah, right! Since these services are private businesses they have the right
to conduct their business as they see fit. I think Tony Mandile is entirely
right.
The radio station I used to work for has a Sunday "Tag Sale" program for
years. They prohibit automobiles and devote one whole show every couple of
months to nothing but automobiles. They prohibit firearms and do not
dedicate a special show to guns. Preston Spaulding of Knoxville, Tenn.,
tells me his local newspaper refused his classified ad when he tried to sell
his gun. Gary Connor held a garage sale and the Seattle Times refused his ad
that mentioned a handgun.
The two daily newspapers in Madison, Wis., will no longer accept classified
ads for gun from anyone other than a licensed dealer. I wrote a newspaper
column several years ago reporting how the National Rifle Association was
refused in many of the print media when they tried to buy space for their
ads.
We all know there are people with rabidly anti-gun ideas. That is their
right. But it is not their right to force their beliefs onto others or to
interfere with the transaction of legal business. The National Association
for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and State of New York are
reported to be suing the firearms industry for not controlling the
distribution of their products. But to do so is called "restraint of trade"
and is illegal.
As for Supica, "I mainly want to get on with my business with the least
possible hassle. AOL's decision to dump gun dealer sites did not bother me
as much as the manner in which they did it."
You know from this column that there are literally thousands of web sites
dealing in guns on the World Wide Web. I didn't think this blatant
censorship exists on the Internet.
John R. Clarke of Thomasville, Ga., is in the business of developing and
maintaining web sites. His is at www.outdoorwriter.com/. As the developer of
The Ballistic Program in 1986, guns are his specialty. He said, "I am not
aware of any Web Presence Provider dumping a firearms web site because of
its firearms content. However in this day and time anything is possible."
But it has happened. Rob Robles of Morgan Hill, Calif. touts his web site as
the place for serious gun collectors at www.antiqueguns.com. His site is on
a new server. He sends notices to some 3,800 people who have asked to be
included on his mailing list, just as I do.
"Suddenly my domain was turned off by my Internet service provider," he
said. "They had received a complaint that I was sending out Spam. This
company figured I was out advocating the use of illegal weapons, and simply
will not listen to anything I say. They have not looked at the letter I sent
and have not looked at my site to see what I am selling.
"My mailing was perfectly legal, it had a statement telling people that they
could respond and be removed. I was in shock. What kind of idiot would
completely shut down a legitimate business because of a complaint? They
would not even let me talk to them and explain my side, I was completely
shocked."
It's only conjecture what the company's response might have been had Robles
been selling religious icons.
The left panel of Robles' auction area categorizes guns so you can focus
your window-shopping. To the right are featured items. Click on one and it
takes you to a form where you can see more about the particular item and
enter a bid, if you want. There is a search utility. Many experts will
respond to questions within their expertise.
There's one way you can be sure your web page won't ever be turned off.
SHOTGUN NEWS will host your page as part of www.shotgunnews.com. For more
information, see http://www.shotgunnews.com/dealerhome.dog.
By Bill Clede
Hodgdon Note: If you're as concerned as we are, you can email an AOL
service rep at catrep822@aol.com. Please don't direct your anger at this
person, but general comments to AOL would be appropriate.
The following article appeared in the Shotgun News magazine -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
AOL Calls Guns Pornography
A SHOTGUN NEWS columnist found himself put in the smut merchant category by
the Internet colossus.
By Bill Clede
Jim Supica, a SHOTGUN NEWS columnist familiar to readers of this
publication, operates Old Town Station Ltd., a dealer in antique and
collectable firearms. He holds a Federal Firearms License for this purpose.
In short, he runs a clean, above-board, and legal business.
That is, he thought he did until America Online (AOL) summarily removed his
web site from their system and sent email to his account address, which is
shared by his wife and children.
AOL wrote, "We have become aware of a web page site that is part of your
account. This web page violates Hometown AOL's Community Standards, which
prohibits sexually explicit graphics, links to other sites which Hometown
deems offensive, harassment, the use of vulgar or sexually oriented
language, discussion of illegal activities, and/or other activities that may
impair the enjoyment of our community's members.
"We have placed a note of this incident on your account history and consider
this a first warning. We have removed all the file(s) from your web page/ftp
site. A second occurrence will result in termination of your account with no
chance of reactivation."
Huh? I looked at Jim's site, now housed at www.armchairgunshow.com, and the
only obscene thing I saw were the four-figure prices these guns carry. I am
not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but calling an innocent person a
pornographer sounds a lot like libel to me.
"I've heard from other dealers who got the same form letter and no-warning
boot from AOL," Supica said. "I got a bunch of emails from litigious types
who suggested a lawsuit, plus an equal number from folks saying AOL has a
right to edit their service as they see fit."
He's right there. Services such as America Online, Microsoft Network,
Prodigy and CompuServe are not common carriers, nor publications in and of
themselves, although they provide the means by which others publish web
sites and periodicals.
At about the same time as Jim's site was scrubbed by AOL, he got a message
in CompuServe's Firearms Forum that CompuServe had decreed the sale of
firearms, even the legal sale of firearms, would no longer be allowed on the
system. GoOutdoorsGroup Administrator Tony Mandile said, "The move was
basically CYA. Obviously a headline reading, "Student Kills 10 With Online
Purchase" wasn't something their legal department would like to see."
When I asked CompuServe what they had actually said, they refused to
comment. They referred me back to the Forum Administrator.
You should know that CompuServe is owned by AOL, but is operated separately.
Yeah, right! Since these services are private businesses they have the right
to conduct their business as they see fit. I think Tony Mandile is entirely
right.
The radio station I used to work for has a Sunday "Tag Sale" program for
years. They prohibit automobiles and devote one whole show every couple of
months to nothing but automobiles. They prohibit firearms and do not
dedicate a special show to guns. Preston Spaulding of Knoxville, Tenn.,
tells me his local newspaper refused his classified ad when he tried to sell
his gun. Gary Connor held a garage sale and the Seattle Times refused his ad
that mentioned a handgun.
The two daily newspapers in Madison, Wis., will no longer accept classified
ads for gun from anyone other than a licensed dealer. I wrote a newspaper
column several years ago reporting how the National Rifle Association was
refused in many of the print media when they tried to buy space for their
ads.
We all know there are people with rabidly anti-gun ideas. That is their
right. But it is not their right to force their beliefs onto others or to
interfere with the transaction of legal business. The National Association
for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and State of New York are
reported to be suing the firearms industry for not controlling the
distribution of their products. But to do so is called "restraint of trade"
and is illegal.
As for Supica, "I mainly want to get on with my business with the least
possible hassle. AOL's decision to dump gun dealer sites did not bother me
as much as the manner in which they did it."
You know from this column that there are literally thousands of web sites
dealing in guns on the World Wide Web. I didn't think this blatant
censorship exists on the Internet.
John R. Clarke of Thomasville, Ga., is in the business of developing and
maintaining web sites. His is at www.outdoorwriter.com/. As the developer of
The Ballistic Program in 1986, guns are his specialty. He said, "I am not
aware of any Web Presence Provider dumping a firearms web site because of
its firearms content. However in this day and time anything is possible."
But it has happened. Rob Robles of Morgan Hill, Calif. touts his web site as
the place for serious gun collectors at www.antiqueguns.com. His site is on
a new server. He sends notices to some 3,800 people who have asked to be
included on his mailing list, just as I do.
"Suddenly my domain was turned off by my Internet service provider," he
said. "They had received a complaint that I was sending out Spam. This
company figured I was out advocating the use of illegal weapons, and simply
will not listen to anything I say. They have not looked at the letter I sent
and have not looked at my site to see what I am selling.
"My mailing was perfectly legal, it had a statement telling people that they
could respond and be removed. I was in shock. What kind of idiot would
completely shut down a legitimate business because of a complaint? They
would not even let me talk to them and explain my side, I was completely
shocked."
It's only conjecture what the company's response might have been had Robles
been selling religious icons.
The left panel of Robles' auction area categorizes guns so you can focus
your window-shopping. To the right are featured items. Click on one and it
takes you to a form where you can see more about the particular item and
enter a bid, if you want. There is a search utility. Many experts will
respond to questions within their expertise.
There's one way you can be sure your web page won't ever be turned off.
SHOTGUN NEWS will host your page as part of www.shotgunnews.com. For more
information, see http://www.shotgunnews.com/dealerhome.dog.
By Bill Clede
Hodgdon Note: If you're as concerned as we are, you can email an AOL
service rep at catrep822@aol.com. Please don't direct your anger at this
person, but general comments to AOL would be appropriate.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Contender:
What ISP do you guys recommend?[/quote]
take a look at this;
PRO GUN INTERNET ACCESS: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/webservices/access/
What ISP do you guys recommend?[/quote]
take a look at this;
PRO GUN INTERNET ACCESS: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/webservices/access/
Leaving AOL is like leaving the mafia, they keep trying to get you for months afterward. It is quite annoying. AOL is slow, screws up computers, and charges too much. If you can get AT&T @Home or some other cable, it's a much better deal, and you can still use Instant Messenger as a seperate program.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.