Handloads for self defense with a twist

[MrWesson]

So I've given my Beretta CX-4 the go ahead for a bedside rifle.

Ive worked up blue dot loads with impressive results before(90gr 2090fps/124gr 1650fps).

The blue dot performs very well in 9mm carbine and even outperforms +p+ at non +P pressure.

First I live in a very pro 2nd state(FL).

Second I've never seen a case where this was brought up.

Third I'm aware of prosecutors and the fact that they are a few good(IE public eye cases) cases from the next level. Were not talking about replicating a factory load here. Its clearly for more performance which I'm not sure how that may look.

And finally I'm not here to validate my opinion and will truly take the opinions here to heart.

The desire to load up some jhp with this recipe is strong.

Should I?

 

[chimo]

As long as you understand that if you actually have to use that ammo in a self-defense situation, odds are that some lawyer will try to paint you as some sicko loading some kind of "cop killer" rounds designed for maximum damage.

Some try the same stunt with factory premium defense rounds...so personally I just use whatever I trust the most...whether it be factory or my hand loads.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, as it were.

 

[9x45]

Why a 9mm carbine to start with, instead of an AR-15. Should you cook your own or not? My CCW issue agency says not to cook your own.

 

[Kosh75287]

Addendum

Why am I a "Sicko" for reloading my own practice ammunition? And what is so "COP KILLER" about a 230gr. LRN projectile? I can't afford to shoot factory ammo all the time, and I only shoot it NOW, to replenish my brass supply. I guess I COULD make it a point to load my EDC pistol with 230gr. FMJ factory ammo, but would THAT be construed as "COP KILLER" bullets?

Gee...I really MUST HAVE outgrown the times....

If I COULD devise and load one of those "Ultrawhammadyne Thermonuclear Turbo-Rotary-Diesel Super-High-Velocity-Tissue-Homogenizer" projectiles that do all the magical stuff I see in the movies, then I'd probably make enough money from it to afford factory stuff all the time and not HAVE to reload my own ammo. SADLY, I'm just not THAT much of an engineer.

 

[Mike / Tx]

My point of view is that what is in the firearm(s) should the need arise is what is being used. While I DO have a very limited supply of factory loaded ammo, I usually have my hunting rounds in the firearm(s) to begin with. I'm certainly not going to ask for a time out so I can switch yo something more politically correct.

 

[Kosh75287]

Amen, Mike.

 

[mavracer]

While I DO have a very limited supply of factory loaded ammo, I usually have my hunting rounds in the firearm(s) to begin with.

you conceal carry with hunting rounds?

Why am I a "Sicko" for reloading my own practice ammunition?

He didn't say you were, but the DA can certianly paint the picture.

I'm certainly not going to ask for a time out so I can switch yo something more politically correct.

I wouldn't either, but I ain't hunting when the guns in my nightstand either.

 

[Hammerhead]

I don't load 'self defense' ammo, but I do load a heavy 'target' load with a 45 caliber SWC at about 850 fps. Don't break into my home and become a 'target'.

 

[cw308]

Josh 75287, Of course 45acp 230 hard ball is a no brained. For self defence style this guy is my go to guy. Check out this vedio. 10 Funniest gun FAILS - You Tube.

 

[chimo]

Why am I a "Sicko" for reloading my own practice ammunition? And what is so "COP KILLER" about a 230gr. LRN projectile? I can't afford to shoot factory ammo all the time, and I only shoot it NOW, to replenish my brass supply. I guess I COULD make it a point to load my EDC pistol with 230gr. FMJ factory ammo, but would THAT be construed as "COP KILLER" bullets?

The answer to all your questions is that lawyers are paid to make things look like whatever fiction they are trying to peddle as the truth.

 

[bfoosh006]

First off... No Offense to anyone.

IMHO, I would suggest some OEM SD 9mm for your carbine.... I will list the reasons I think this below.

1. Your Carbine was not designed to shot +P+ 9mm.... so it is possible, that at the worst possible moment, you have a part failure. I am not saying your rifle can't handle it... but even Beretta will tell you +P ammo will accelerate wear on it. So you are pushing the design parameter's of the Carbine. Not to mention if you had a 9mm case blow out....

2. A lot of SD 9mm bullets are designed for a specific velocity envelope... pushing those same bullets to fast will result in RAPID expansion and much more limited penetration as a result. ( Maybe consider .357 Sig bullets if you decide to use your own reloads.) Realistically you don't want a 9mm SD bullet to act like a varmint round from the excess velocity.... you need penetration as well as expansion. I suggest you try some of your reloads shot through water filled milk jugs.... if they don't make it through the first one... then you don't have enough penetration.

If very high speed 9mm ammo worked well for SD... all the manufacturers would be making it. Fact is .. it is not needed.

3. Lawyers.... The fact that you used your own super-duper man-stopper will not be over looked.... Prosecuting Lawyers will spend a lot of time trying to make you look like a over zealous nut. IMHO... it is not worth the grief... especially since over the counter ammo will accomplish your goal. Don't wonder if they will crucify you... PLAN for the worse possible scenario. Factory ammo will limit that.

Again no offense to anyone... just my thoughts.

 

[buck460XVR]

The answer to all your questions is that lawyers are paid to make things look like whatever fiction they are trying to peddle as the truth

Facts are....there has never been a case where in a legitimate SD scenario, ammo had anything to do with whether it was a good or bad shoot. I buy very little if any factory ammo. I see no need to. My handloads all use bullets used in commercial/factory type loads and all my loads are within published guidelines. All of my ammo is clearly marked and I have records of all that I load. Ain't much a lawyer can do with that to make me look like a "sicko".......

you conceal carry with hunting rounds?

I don't with CWC, but when it comes down to HD and grabbin' a shotgun outta the corner or one of my 686s off the dresser, they may very well have hunting ammo in them. Why not?

I wouldn't either, but I ain't hunting when the guns in my nightstand either.

I use whatever load combo shoots most accurate outta my hunting handguns while giving me good terminal performance. No reason they won't work well in a HD scenario, in my home. While my nightstand gun is usually a 1911, it still has handloads in it. As I said, if I grab a revolver, odds are they will have hunting type ammo in them. Many folks hunt with 125/158 gr JHPs outta .357s. What are the most common types of SD/HD ammo for use in a .357? duh....125 and 158 gr JHPs.

 

[SHR970]

The OP stated he lives in FLORIDA.

Presuming that a lethal use of force falls within the legal and correct scope of Stand Your Ground / Castle Doctrine (esp. this one) ammo won't matter. Civil Lawsuit? Sorry... see laws pertaining to civil immunity in FLORIDA.

INAL but Florida laws are INTERESTING. See Fl. 776.032

 

[Metal god]

I've always been taught/told to use what ever says police , law enforcement or duty on the box . That negates all DA's from painting you as using some "EXTRA" deadly ammo . They will have to explain why cops get to use such "DEADLY" ammo but if you use it you're some sort of sicko . There are plenty of good ammo's out there with that label so why poke the bear .

I assume this question is being asked for court purposes because a good shoot "is" a good shoot and you will not be in court so who cares what ammo you used . So remember when asked you will have to explain why you felt it necessary to load up ammo that is hotter then not only anything the police use but hotter then even are military uses . The DA will point out how your ammo is "more" deadly then what all the military commanders over the years felt was needed to go to war with . You must always keep in mind that it's not what "you" believe is reasonable . It's what you can convince 12 random people is reasonable while some one else is trying to convince them just the opposite .

 

[Chainsaw.]

First rule of a prosecuting attorney, if you can make the case look bad, make the person look bad. They will bring in the ammo, and most likely that you loaded your own, they will hound you on why "if its so important to attempt to protect yourself with a GUN (special emphasis) then please explain to the jury why you felt that you posses a certain knowledge of ammunition that would keep you safer than what the PROFESSIONAL ammo manufacturers can sell you". They attack your character, they try to make you look like so freak in his basement masturbating to the Rodney King beating and trying to concoct a round that is more deadly than what ammo manfs would produce. Now you and I know yoir just reloading, but now the rest of your life and how it will be spent hangs on 12 morons being coerced by said prosecuting attorney. AND keep in mind that prosecuting attorney doesnt give a crap about your life, he only cares about his record and how it will boost him into politics.

 

[noylj]

Good shoot or not, you almost always WILL be in court—civil if NOT criminal, and the civil lawyer will do everything to portray YOU as a homicidal maniac who wanted the barest excuse to KILL someone, and the nice, choir-boy victim was not really meaning you any harm—and, believe me, the parents will be in court with pictures of the saint you injured/killed.
Throw in injuring/killing with YOUR OWN HOME-BREWED rounds-of-destruction, and the jury will look at you like killing was your only goal—you might as well engrave your gun with "The Punisher" or "Death Dealer" to really get on the jury's good side.
Justice is NOT really a part of the game being played in the court system today, and the defense no longer acts as though they are officers of the court.

 

[Mike / Tx]

While I DO have a very limited supply of factory loaded ammo, I usually have my hunting rounds in the firearm(s) to begin with.

you conceal carry with hunting rounds?

I don't recall every saying anything to do with concealed carry, nor did I read it in the initial post. But to answer your question, no I do not CC, I simply do not own anything , nor the holsters which they ride in, which would qualify as concealable.

I wouldn't either, but I ain't hunting when the guns in my nightstand either.

So, If I am forced to defend myself in my own home, as is being referred to, or even while traveling, I am going to use the ammo which is usually in the firearm. I do not have children living with me and I do not unload each and every one of them simply because I am traveling down the road. I do not travel with pistols or rifles with a round in the chamber, but all revolvers keep a full cylinder.

Personally I don't give a rats rear about any court, lawyer, or what 12 people are going to think of me shooting Johnny who broke into my house or decided to try and car jack me and my wife while we are on the road. If the unfortunate event happens, I am going to do my very best NOT to use force to end the situation, but if I have to, there will be no doubt, if I survive, why I was forced to use it. As for the civil ramifications, well I feel that who ever broke into my house for what ever reason passed on those rights once they crossed the threshold. I won't be inviting them in at 2 in the morning for sure and certain.

 

[MrWesson]

Why a 9mm carbine to start with, instead of an AR-15. Should you cook your own or not? My CCW issue agency says not to cook your own.

My AR is longer and I like the CX-4 better.

Good shoot or not, you almost always WILL be in court—civil if NOT criminal, and the civil lawyer will do everything to portray YOU as a homicidal maniac who wanted the barest excuse to KILL someone, and the nice, choir-boy victim was not really meaning you any harm—and, believe me, the parents will be in court with pictures of the saint you injured/killed.
Throw in injuring/killing with YOUR OWN HOME-BREWED rounds-of-destruction, and the jury will look at you like killing was your only goal—you might as well engrave your gun with "The Punisher" or "Death Dealer" to really get on the jury's good side.
Justice is NOT really a part of the game being played in the court system today, and the defense no longer acts as though they are officers of the court.

I totally get what you are saying but it is written into FL law that good shoot = absolutely immune to any litigation civil or criminal. Castle doctrine being that if something comes into my home = good shoot.

The OP stated he lives in FLORIDA.

Presuming that a lethal use of force falls within the legal and correct scope of Stand Your Ground / Castle Doctrine (esp. this one) ammo won't matter. Civil Lawsuit? Sorry... see laws pertaining to civil immunity in FLORIDA.

INAL but Florida laws are INTERESTING. See Fl. 776.032

This.

 

[TimSr]

I'm not seeing "the twist". Looks like another handloads for defense thread to me.

I only use handloads. Some are concerned it may harm their legal defense. Hard for me to separate degrees of "deadly" in whether the use of deadly force was justified.

Blue Dot is a super performer in 9mm. 8.2gr under a 115gr JHP was my bedside load for years before I switched to .357.

 

[MrWesson]

I'm not seeing "the twist". Looks like another handloads for defense thread to me.

I only use handloads. Some are concerned it may harm their legal defense. Hard for me to separate degrees of "deadly" in whether the use of deadly force was justified.

Blue Dot is a super performer in 9mm. 8.2gr under a 115gr JHP was my bedside load for years before I switched to .357.

Twist being at least in my mind that loading for increased velocity vs loading standard ammo could be construed a certain way.

In hindsight that seems silly and I agree with you.

I use the same load for 124gr BTW 1650fps vs about 1200 with target loads(out of the carbine).