Hammer won't cock, cylinder doesn't rotate. Any ideas?

[kozak6]

I'm the gun guy in the family. But I'm not a revolver guy (yet).

So my dad shows up and hands me his pal's Rossi M68. When the trigger is pulled or the hammer is cocked, the hammer only goes about halfway back before it stops, and the cylinder doesn't turn. The cylinder isn't frozen, as it will turn freely when swung out. If I close the cylinder and turn it by hand, it will turn until the cylinder stop engages.

The cylinder face is clean and does not contact the forcing cone when I try to cock it or pull the trigger, so it's not that.

My revolver experience is limited to firing a couple cylinders years ago. I'd have to buy a gunsmithing screwdriver set just to get the sideplate off, which is fine because I've been meaning to buy a set anyways. I have some mechanical aptitude, but it still makes me a bit nervous.

What do you think the problem is? How likely is it to require a gunsmith? If I could just click in a new part, I'd be a hero. Otherwise, I'm concerned that hiring a gunsmith might cost more than the pistol is worth.

It's an Interarms Rossi, so the warranty isn't valid.

Thanks guys.

 

[Kosh75287]

It looks like a fairly close copy of the S&W J-Frame series.

What I'M about to suggest may elicit wails of protests, but this procedure has worked for ME. Take 5 or 6 empty cartridges (whatever number it holds, but 5, I think) and color the headstamps some bright color. Color the cylinder face white, or some color which readily shows off abrasion.

Close the cylinder, and open it several times, or until you see the applied colors disturbed. If the colors remain undisturbed, it is certain that the cylinder is not binding with the forcing cone or rear of the frame.

Close the cylinder and try pulling the hammer back as far as it will go (don't force it, just use appropriate effort). Look for disturbances on the colored ends of the cylinder. If there are none, it's probably not the cylinder.

The next thing I'D look at is the little arm that turns the cylinder, when locked in the frame. Is it moving forward and fully engaging the articulating notches, just outside the ejector rod?

If not, I'D suspect there's something under the sideplate that is preventing that "articulating arm" (I'm sure there's a more correct name for it) from moving fully through its motion range. When I get to THIS point, I'M usually on a phone with a gunsmith, but I'm something of a chicken about going further, unless the gun in question is already a lost cause.

If it's not the articulating arm being blocked internally, the only thing I can imagine as a cause is a bend of the ejector rod, forward of where the crane locks into the frame. But I would expect to see signs of misalignment on the cylinder face and cartridge head stamps.

That's all I'VE got.

 

[hartcreek]

The hand is not engageing but as to why...... my X ray vision only works so far.

 

[g.willikers]

This is going to be difficult to figure out long distance.
Especially since I am not familiar with Rossi revolvers.
Hopefully they are similar to S&Ws, like Taurus.
Judging from the downloaded manual from the Rossi web site, they are.
http://www.rossiusa.com/manuals.cfm
But here goes:
Release the cylinder and swing it out, out of the way.
Check if it runs true when you spin it out of the frame and the crane/cylinder pin isn't bent.
Try to cock the hammer.
What happens?
If it won't cock, pull rearwards on the release, the opposite way of when opening the cylinder to swing out, and try again.
Will the hammer cock, now?
If it does, look to see if the hand is rising and falling in its slot in the rear of the frame.
That's the part that rotates the cylinder when it's closed.
And if the bolt/cylinder stop goes up and down in the bottom of the frame as the hammer goes back and forth, if it will do that.
Also check if the bolt/stop goes up and down in the bottom of the frame with finger pressure.
And we ain't even started, yet.
Revolvers is fun.

 

[wogpotter]

I'd guess a weak or broken hand spring.
Open the cylinder tilt the gun muzzle up & cycle the action with the cylinder fully open.
If the hand doesn't emerge from its slot in the recoil shield & move upwardly (towards the top strap) its confirmed.

 

[James K]

I don't think it is the hand or hand spring. The OP says that the hammer comes back to a certain point, and stops. That sounds more like the cylinder stop is not disengaging so the hand can't turn the cylinder.

With the cylinder swung out, pull back on the thumb piece that you use to open the cylinder. Now cock the hammer and see if the cylinder stop at the bottom of the cylinder "window" moves down. If it doesn't, you have found the problem. If that is the problem, let us know and we should be able to help.

Jim

 

[T. O'Heir]

Pop take the thing apart? Likely just needs reassembly properly. You will likely need a rebound slide tool. Peculiar thing to Smith's and their clones. $20 at Brownell's.
If it comes to pass you need parts, Gunparts has 'em.
"...I'd have to buy a gunsmithing screwdriver set just to get the sideplate off..." No, you don't. Any screw driver that fits will do nicely. And a plastic mallet to whack the off side with instead of prying it off. Way easier to do than it sounds.
Like Kosh75287 says, Rossi's are Smith clones.
A Rossi revolver manual is here, too. http://stevespages.com/pdf/rossi_revolver.pdf
Exploded drawing alone is here. http://stevespages.com/ipb-rossi-revolvers.html

 

[James K]

FWIW, I worked on many S&W's before anyone made a rebound slide tool. I used a Phillips screwdriver to install the spring; works fine.

Jim

 

[shaunpain]

I think it could just be improper reassembly as well, however, I had a similar problem with a Police Positive. It turned out that the bolt was sheared, and prevented the cylinder from moving therefore seizing the whole gun. You will not be able to diagnose the problem without removing the sideplate.

I ended up tracking the part I needed after years of searching, replaced it myself and dry fired the gun until it worked.

 

[kozak6]

I popped the sideplate off. One of the sideplate screws under the grip was boogered, so I wonder if someone else tried to take a crack at it. It's interesting to see the mechanism in there. It seems simple at first, but then a little poking around reveals it as nothing of the sort. There's an impressive amount of clockwork going on inside when that trigger is pulled.

The rebound slide assembly looked scary and awkward with that big spring in there, so I didn't take it down that far.

Anyways, it looks like somehow, the hand escaped from its slot and just needed to be set back into place. With the hand back in place, the revolver appears to function correctly.

The new problem is that when I was reinstalling the mainspring, it went sproing and sent the mainspring retaining swivel into low Earth orbit.

Dang. I'll see if Rossi will send me another one if I can't find it.

Anyways, what could allow the the hand to escape from its slot? Would a hard drop do it, or does it suggest some other issue?

 

[James K]

The hand is held in its slot by the tension from the hand spring inside the trigger. That spring can disengage if the hand is pulled back too far, and there will be no tension on the hand. If you now have proper tension, the hand should stay in place; if not, you have to use a small screwdriver to move the spring upward and allow the pin in the hand to fit under it.

I don't remember, but does the Rossi have a small hole drilled in the mainspring guide to trap the swivel? If so, make sure you use it when dis-/re-assembling that gun.

Jim

 

[gyvel]

Just resign yourself to looking at everything and anything inside, out, under and behind in the area where you lost the spring. It will show up. (And that includes looking in the waste can piece by piece.)

"Seek and ye shall find."

 

[heyjoe]

try using a large magnet to sweep the area to help find it

 

[g.willikers]

I usually find things like that with a flashlight.
Aim at a low angle to the floor and all surfaces it might be on to see a reflection.
It should reveal itself.

 

[wogpotter]

I usually find things like that with a flashlight.
Aim at a low angle to the floor and all surfaces it might be on to see a reflection.

Yup, works even better with the shades drawn & the ceiling light out!

Believe it or not a CB antenna is a big help, those with a magnetic base. Hold by the antenna top & "sweep" like a mine detector with the magnet base. You'll be amazed what is hiding on that floor!

 

[gyvel]

Besides the dismantling of everything in sight, another technique I have used as a last resort is laying on the floor with my cheek pressed as close to the floor as possible, then using a flashlight to see any raised object. Basically, an ant's eye view.

It actually has worked several times.

I usually find things like that with a flashlight.

If you put the flashlight at floor level, you can sometimes see a shadow cast by an object on the floor.

 

[odoh]

Donno much about Taurus/Rossi guns but my bro had one of'em and had a similar experience ww/its manual 44 safety backing out from recoil binding its function. The safety was integrated in the cylinder pin and when re- tightened functioned well. I hadn't had an opportunity to do an inspection of his work so can't say yours is the same but easy to fix if it is. I seen something like that in Uberti single action loosening up and backing out.

 

[kozak6]

The flashlight trick is one of my favorites.

It looks like the swivel shot behind me, ricocheted off the wall behind me, flew over my head, and ended up on the far side of the room in front me, hiding between the trash can and the wall.

Even after I got it all back together, it still wouldn't quite work. It only appeared to function when it was tilted downwards. Otherwise, it would back out of the slot.

If you now have proper tension, the hand should stay in place; if not, you have to use a small screwdriver to move the spring upward and allow the pin in the hand to fit under it.

Bingo. That did the trick.

The rebound slide wasn't too bad to deal with. A #1 Philips worked fine. It wasn't any worse than wrestling the mainspring in and out.

In conclusion, I think one of the previous owners took it apart wrong (boogered screws and gouges), and then put it back together wrong. I'm glad I could get it fixed without a gunsmith.

Thanks guys!

 

[James K]

You are welcome, and Merry Christmas from us to you and yours.

Jim