H4831SC same as H4831 - Really?

BumbleBug

New member
In a recent powder swap I was able to snag 1.5lbs of H4831SC. I'm a big fan of IMR4831 & H4831 and I KNOW those two load different. Looking at Hogdon's load data they just say to load the "SC" version the same as H4831. In all my reloading, for first time powders, I've heard cut 10% off max & work up. Can I really just take my hot .270 H4831 load & substitute SC instead? Any experience or comments on switching to SC?

TIA...
 

Salmoneye

New member
In all my reloading, for first time powders, I've heard cut 10% off max & work up. Can I really just take my hot .270 H4831 load & substitute SC instead? Any experience or comments on switching to SC?

That applies for any time you change any component in the 'recipe', INCLUDING changing to a different lot of the same powder...

If Hodgdon says use H4831 data for H4831SC, then I believe them...

But it doesn't mean you should simply start dropping the same 'hot' load that you worked up before...

The powder companies admit to striving for +/-3% of the optimal burn rate of their powders...This means that it is quite possible for your current lot of powder to have been -3% from optimal, and the next canister you open from a different lot to be +3% from optimal...

6% faster burn on an already 'hot' load just may ruin your day...
 
That is correct. I'm sure Hodgdon strives to keep these powders the same under matching test conditions, but other factors, like how easily the vibration of travel packs them down, can also become a factor. So you treat it like any new component, cutting the load back and working up toward your previously established load. The only exception I make if for new lots of match bullets from small, domestic companies like Sierra, Hornady, Berger, Nosler, etcetera, for which, if it is the exact same bullet product number, I've yet to detect a difference in pressure or velocity from lot to lot. Big companies I am less sanguine about. They sometimes outsource their bullets and they aren't always exactly the same from on lot to the next. We had someone find different lots of 0.355" and 0.356" diameter bullets identically packaged by Remington for 9 mm pistol as 0.355". He contacted them about it, and they said they couldn't be expected to change packaging for a difference that small. So I'd work back up with Remington or Winchester bullets and with any kind of bulk bullet purchase except for cast bullets for light target loads.

That said, it only takes about 3-4% charge weight adjustment to compensate for a 6% burning rate difference, if all else stays the same. All else probably doesn't stay exactly the same, though, so I use Rocky Raab's old rule of thumb to reduce an established, non-maximum (for the particular rifle) load by 5% when changing only a single component. If I change two or more, then I apply the full 10% reduction. If I were changing the primer in a very small case, like a 22 Hornet, I would also go with 10%.
 

steve4102

New member
Not exactly 4831, but.

I use 7828 in my 30-06 AI, it is heavily compressed and it shoots great.

I wanted to try the SC version to see if I could reduce some of the compression.

What I found was that my accurate loads fell apart with the SC version. Now, I don't know if the SC failure was from the +/- 3% or from the reduced compression, but I do know that the SC version did not produce the same results. YMMV
 
Steve,

People gripe about the difficulty of metering long stick powders accurately by volume on the assumption that weight is all that matters. But we repeatedly see examples of long sticks tending to self-compensate for small charge weight errors by having their burn rates slowed more by more dense packing, and vice versa.

Hatcher had an example of choosing between two powders for 30-06 National Match ammunition one year. He said they both had about the same burn rate as modern IMR 4320, but one was short grain and the other was long grain. (Probably IMR 1185 and 1186, which had the same grain sizes as IMR 4895 and 4064, respectively.) He said the Frankford Arsenal loading equipment could meter the short grains to ±0.30 grains, but the long ones could only be held to ±0.65 grains. Nonetheless, in all the ammo he tested that was loaded by that equipment, the long grain loads were consistently more accurate. So the long grain powder was selected, and despite the charge weight variation, several records were set with it at the National Matches that year.

IMR 4064, another long stick powder, continues to be a popular match ammunition powder. It is what Federal puts in its Gold Medal Match 308 Winchester ammunition. A version of it formulated for reduced flash is used in Mk.316 m.0 military sniper ammunition. It's also used because it has low temperature sensitivity (see this article).
 

Economist

New member
I switched from H4831sc to H4831 and back again with my .270 win loads. At 55 - 59 grains with 130 and 150 grain bullets, they have identical performance over the chronograph. SC meters better, that's it.
 

JimPage

New member
I prefer SC purely for the metering ease. Performance difference is barely noticeable, and for less than max loads is insignificant.
 
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