H110 Compressed Loads?

1972RedNeck

New member
The Norma reloading manual says ball powders are not to be compressed. As far as I know, H110 is a ball powder. Correct?

Looking through my Hornady manual it lists the max load for a 357 Mag with 110gr XTPs over H110 as a compressed load.

So what gives? Which one is correct?
 

74A95

New member
It depends on several things, including what is called ball powder, which some people interpret differently. Hodgdon calls H110 a spherical powder. Winchester calls 296 a ball powder. They are the exact same powder.

Many powders can be compressed without worry. This is true for many handgun loads. Just follow published load data.
 
Having read the Norma manual on this point, what they seem to be afraid of is compressing to the point there is little air space left between grains, effectively making the powder solid enough to carry a shock or pressure wave. The bulk density of spherical propellants is higher to start with, so less compressing would be required to do this with them than with stick powders. Spherical, BTW is the generic term; Ball® is a Winchester trademark, and I think Norma was using it because a lot of people use it interchangeably with spherical, and also, not all the translating to English is perfect in that manual). But my suspicion is that slight compression, at least, should not cause a lot of grief. It may be worth an email to Hodgdon on the subject.
 

74A95

New member
I doubt that there is too much concern about H110/296 being compressed as it commonly is in many magnum calibers. The load data for Nosler shows H110/296 with a 119-120% loading density (compressed) for their 200 grain bullet in the 44 Magnum. Even their starting loads with these powders are compressed.

https://www.nosler.com/44-remington-magnum-handgun


Hodgdon comments on the issue of compressed loads at their website.

https://hodgdon.com/faq-items/compressed-loads/

Normally a pistol or rifle shellcase is considered full, or 100% loading density, when the powder charge sits at the base of the bullet when the bullet is fully seated. It is possible with some powders and cartridges to increase the powder charge slightly above this point, such that when the bullet is seated it actually compresses the powder charge slightly. This condition is known as a compressed load.

Hodgdon notes in its reloading data if the subject charge is a compressed load. A full case, or lightly compressed charge is an ideal condition for creating loads with the most uniform velocities and pressures, and oftentimes, producing top accuracy.


As previously noted, stick with published load data. It has been pressure tested.
 
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74A95,

I hate to tell you, but that Nosler load density data is way off. It's in my copy of their data book, too, but when you look at the nearly identical maximum load using the same Nosler bullet in Hodgdon's data, there is no "C" for compressed next to it. Moreover, the reason QuickLOAD's propellant table setup has a default maximum compression of 105% is it starts getting hard not to bulge the case as compression gets much higher. 110% is impossible for some folks with some powders without making the cartridge too fat to chamber.

What went wrong in the Nosler data book is the calculated case water capacity under the bullet. They have it at 24 grains. But a 44 Mag case has almost 40 grains of water overflow capacity, and even with that Nosler bullet seated to 1.58" COL, a seating depth of 0.302", the case still has over 28.6 grains of water space left. So, someone at Nosler got that wrong water capacity and then just let their spreadsheet work out the compression and didn't question it, probably because they'd never personally seated a heavily compressed load.

On a hunch, I put a 44 Special case into QuickLOAD with that same 0.302" seating depth. The remaining water capacity under the bullet was 23.98 grains. So I think we know the Genesis of the Nosler error.

I haven't looked at every spherical propellant load in Hodgdon's data, but in a spot check of a few dozen, I haven't spotted one with a C next to it yet.
 

1972RedNeck

New member
I haven't looked at every spherical propellant load in Hodgdon's data, but in a spot check of a few dozen, I haven't spotted one with a C next to it yet.

On Hodgdon's load data website they list 23 grains of H110 under a 110 grain XTP as a max load for a 357 Mag. Nothing that I can see denotes a compressed load, but according to my Hornady manual, this is a compressed load.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that powders vary in bulk density. When Western still distributed Accurate, they had bulk density variations from ±2.2% to ±5.6%, depending on the powder, and, IIRC, the higher number included some sphericals. I don't know what the range of numbers is for WC296 (the bulk parent of Winchester 296 and H110). Maybe Hodgdon would tell us. Hodgdon is using Winchester brass, which tends to be slightly roomier than some other brands. I also have three different lengths for the Hornady bullet (0.5118" from GRT, 0.510 from QL, and 0.492 from JBM), so that needs to be checked, too. My point is that this may be a load that is compressed with one set of component lots but not with another. For the powder, lower bulk density (higher bulk volume) has more airspace in it, so the effect of compression would be less.

There are too many variables here to be more than guessing. This is probably worth a call to Hodgdon in the afternoon to get an official opinion and to ask about that particular load.
 

Shadow9mm

New member
My understanding is that, its generally ok to compress H110, however you never want to down load it, you want to keep the air gap between the bullet and powder as small as possible.
 
Looking at Hodgdon's data, it gets as low as a loading density of about 88% in 357 Mag., IIRC. The issue with loading down too far is the chance of the powder extinguishing due to evolved explosive gases that form on the powder grain surface as the flame front progresses condensing and extinguishing the powder. This can leave a bullet stuck in the barrel, which can cause the next shot to be fired into it, damaging the gun, and maybe the shooter along with it.
 
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