H.R.218: The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004

[JMC]

President Bush signed it today.

LEAA - H.R. 218

 

[KSFreeman]

Huzzah! Good news for national ccw. One thing the law likes is a template.

Those lawyers are just so darn lazy.

 

[Marko Kloos]

Huzzah! Good news for national ccw.

How so? The national police brass just lost all incentive to support national CCW for non-badge holders.

It's much easier for a cop to get a CCW permit than it is for a non-LEO to get a badge.

The whole thing stinks. The very title of the law advances the notion that law enforecement officers are somehow more deserving of safety than ordinary citizens.

The notion of a special class being able to enjoy the unhindered exercise of a constitutional right is decidedly un-American. It's not that I oppose the right of a police officer to carry wherever he wants. What I oppose is the same officer ready and willing to take me to jail for daring to exercise that same right.

 

[JMC]

You need someone like the LEAA to fight for a national CCW as was done for current and retired LEO's. It took 12 long years and was a tough battle but it is now law, federal law.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Most retired cops probably won't even bother with carrying out of state if they have to qualify once a year instead of every few years, or not at all once they retire.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

I believe some states require officers to quailfy, or at least train, even MORE then once a year. Imagine that.

 

[JMC]

Most retired cops probably won't even bother with carrying out of state if they have to qualify once a year instead of every few years, or not at all once they retire.

I'm a retired NJ LEO with a NJ retired officers carry permit. I've had it since day one in '97.

I am also certifed by the NJ State Police to qualify other retirees for their permit.

I am required to qualify semi-annually both day and night, the same as an active officer is. Same target, same course of fire. The results are then submitted to the NJ State Police.

We must also review the "use of force" policy for retired officers each time we qualify.

We are bound by a far higher set of standards than most "shall issue" states.

I won't look for an excuse to travel out of state just so I can carry but, I've found myself out traveling with my wife and suddenly we decide to go into PA for whatever reason. We are only 45 min. away. Immediately, I'm in violation of PA law. Now I'm not.

I can now travel out to Cabela's in PA and not have to stop after crossing the NJ/PA state lines and take my gun off and secrete it in the vehicle until I get back into NJ.

This law, H.R. 218, is a good thing.

 

[KSFreeman]

Marko, because the law is prone to copycats. Remember '87 when everyone was griping about Florida? Who cares? The NRA spent how much money? I don't live there! Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine.

Florida set the example for other states to copy. Same situation here, police carry, sets the example for national ccw for us humble serfs who are far better trained than the police.

Never anticipated police brass supporting national ccw or any ccw, other than for themselves. They are feckless and handmaidens of the big city politicians.

I don't believe I need a permission slip from my government so I may carry the means to defend myself, however always better to be legal than illegal.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I'm a retired NJ LEO with a NJ retired officers carry permit. I've had it since day one in '97.

Out here the qualification requirement was a lot less stringent. I think lots of guys won't bother. Who'd know? I don't think the bill has any requirment for an ID, or CCW card does it? Can't they just carry on their retired ID?

 

[JMC]

Out here the qualification requirement was a lot less stringent. I think lots of guys won't bother. Who'd know? I don't think the bill has any requirment for an ID, or CCW card does it?

You might want to read final text.
H.R. 218 Final Text

Can't they just carry on their retired ID?

Well, for myself, I can't get the permit (card) unless I meet the qualification requirement.

 

[FrankDrebin]

You might want to read final text.

I did. Here's the entire section on retired officers:

SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

`Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

`(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

`(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

`926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.'.

To me, it looks like retired cops have to have the same training and qualification shoots every 12 months as active cops in order to carry out of state.

Here is part of what a "qualified retired officer" is:

during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

And here is a requirement of the type of ID needed to carry out of state:

`(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

Does that mean if I only qualified for the last 20 years to carry a semi auto on the job, I'm not qualified to carry a revolver out of state? I would guess that the "otherwise found by the state" means that the CCW class that anyone has to take to get a CCW, including retired cops who are renewing their CCW's in MI, for example, counts as "otherwise found by the state....". In other words, I don't think retired cops will be able to carry just on their retierd ID, but rather they'll have to get a CCW permit. They only thing they get to do is carry in those states that don't recognize outside CCW permits. And there will be a "retired police officer" box on the CCW card.

 

[jefnvk]

Just curious, does this apply to active/discharged military as well?

 

[gifted]

Just curious, does this apply to active/discharged military as well?

Reading the ordnance Frank posted, I'd say no. Perhaps if you were an SP or an MP or something like that, you could, but us Joe Blows? No.