Gunsmith Competence

[raftman]

The recent thread by the fellow who wanted to get his pistol refinished, only to find the 'smith obscured the serial number reminded me of the only experience I ever had with a gunsmith. In this experience, I had a gun that needed a somewhat tricky repair, actually it was just the replacement of a part, and figured I'd rather just trust an expert to do it... I was pretty new to guns at the time. So I had a gun that needed a tricky, but doable part replacement, and got back a gun that was broken beyond repair. I think, now, if I had attempted the repair myself, I'd still have that gun. In both these cases, one would think a licensed professional would know better.

So, the question that these experiences raise is, what exactly can assure a person that a gunsmith is competent?

I've tried doing some research, but didn't see a concrete answer. There are legal requirements that apply to gunsmiths, but these seem to apply to the the handling, storage, and documentation requirements as called for by the ATF. When searching how one actually becomes a gunsmith and the required education, the answers were often vague, such as, "requires: high school + training" or that many gunsmiths get started by going to gunsmithing schools, being the apprentice to a gunsmith, through various classes, from experience with small arms repair in the military, or possibly some combination of these. Furthermore, it was said that a gunsmith's competence is often established by word of mouth, that is customers saying things like, "This guy sucks, look elsewhere for your needs" or "This one is great, don't hesitate about getting work done here."

I couldn't find anything that states a gunsmith has to have some sort of degree, certificate or something along those lines assuring their competence as a gunsmith before they can bear the title "gunsmith." Can anybody that will follow the ATF rules just call themselves a gunsmith? And if so, how does one establish the competence and credentials of a gunsmith prior to entrusting them with work on a firearm rather than finding out from experience that they're either great or not so great?

Where it stands now, I've come to much sooner trust myself with a task that needs doing than the local gunsmith. For my needs, it seems like it's a matter of doing some research and getting some practice and I can get better results, at a fraction of the price, than giving the job to some bozo, and waiting for 3 weeks, only to find he screwed things up.

 

[Slopemeno]

Research is your friend. I'd hesitate to send a gun to someone whose work I haven't seen, but people seem to do it over and over.

 

[troy_mclure]

theres a local smith that does great engraving on anything, and can fix any revolver problems.

but if you want any semi auto fixed, go elsewhere, as he has messed up a few 1911's.

another way ill look at a smith is if they have insurance, or a stated repair/replacement policy.

i bought a used benelli super black eagle that would only fire single shot when i got it home.

i visited several guys till i found one that had an actual contract he signed that guaranteed either replacement, or repair of any gun damaged, or lost while he had it, and he offered a "warranty" on his work.

theres quite a few gunsmiths out there, especially on the interwebz, just do some research(google) on the guy/shop you pick.

 

[Nnobby45]

When one becomes a gunsmith, the real learning process and experience building starts then. Similar to cops, docs, and lot's of other professionals.

We don't have enough good ones, and they only get good by starting somewhere and learning as they go along, though some (the best) probably learn a lot in an apprentice capacity. There aren't that many full timers.

Get references.

The very best make mistakes, but they also are willing to correct the problem.

Gunsmithing is a business. I've seen good gunsmiths go broke, because their business running talents didn't equal their smith talents. Some didn't have much talent for either.

Some of the best I've seen have, say, the wife run the book keeping end, and the smith takes care of the guns.

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's difficult. I''ve seen some really lousy work by people who call themselves gunsmiths. And I know some guys who can do a decent job of things like installing recoil pads or mounting scopes, but who I would never trust with one of my 1911s. There's really no certification program. The best way to know if someone is good is to talk with people he's done work for.

Another thing to do is look for someone who's a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild (http://www.acgg.org/) or who otherwise has a solid reputation. I've reached a point at which I will have 1911 work done only by someone who has an established, national reputation for 1911 work.

The problems with using a nationally known gunsmith are that you will usually have to wait and it won't be cheap. But you will avoid a lot of aggravation.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

I usually post exactly what I want done here and ask for recommendations. More than worth it to pay shipping to get someone who knows what they are doing.

I have had very little luck with y local gun smiths. Stock repair on a hunting gun, drill and tap and such are all I would go to them for.

 

[CraigC]

This is exactly why I only use nationally recognized custom gunsmiths. It might cost more with shipping and take longer because of their backlog but I know it'll be done right.

For refinishing there is Doug Turnbull, Accurate Plating & Weaponry and Ford's.

For custom work on handguns there is Hamilton Bowen (the master), Jim Stroh, David Clements, Andy Horvath, Alan Harton, John Gallagher, Ben Forkin, John Linebaugh, Alex Hamilton, Magnaport, SSK Industries, Cylinder & Slide, etc. Even as much as I despise Gary Reeder I know that he would do a good job and I'd know what to expect.

For custom rifle work there is Reagan Nonneman, David Clay, Darcy Echols, Mic McPherson, etc.

If I haven't read at least one article by a reputable gunwriter and/or seen several examples of their work, I don't use them. The locals can suffer, I've never met a good one.

 

[hoytinak]

Yeah that was my thread about getting the 1911 refinished. I've talked with the "smith" and he's going to restamp the serial number deeper and refinish it again. This is the last thing I'll ever let him touch of mine again. I wouldn't even recommend him to swap a set of stocks on a 1911 anymore. To bad, cause I don't know any other smiths around here so I'm gonna have to find someone to start sending my work to.

 

[wingman]

I have had very little luck with y local gun smiths.

Also my experience,plus I find many gun owners don't like to admit they
selected a bad smith so difficult to find out the truth. All I can suggest
is lots of research and don't be in a rush.

 

[raftman]

hoytinak,

I too have a couple of guns that could use a refinishing. The experience with my local smith basically makes me conclude I am better off learning to do it myself. I can practice techniques on the gun that clown ruined.

With that last job, he promised it would be done that same week, that it would only be a 1-hour job, but he has other jobs already lined up. He called somewhere between 3 weeks and month later, telling me the frame of the pistol got cracked during the attempted repair, and that he was "kind enough" not to charge me anything for the 30 minutes he spent on it.

 

[Quentin2]

Raftman, I have to agree, I've had such bad luck with local gunsmiths that I tend to trust my own gunsmithing over a "pro". In Phoenix in the mid-1970s I went to a highly recommended gunsmith to have a trigger job done on my brand new Colt Series 70 1911. Got it back and when I fired it, it went full auto. Seven discharges in a second or two and I couldn't hold it down, it was next to my left ear firing straight up with the last two spent cases bouncing off my temple! That guy was lucky I was 200 miles away when it happened, I would have beat the crap out of him at that moment.

And just a few years ago the firing pin in my Star PD broke and a recommended gunsmith had to fabricate a new one. When I picked up the pistol the firing pin was protruding slightly (too long) but I knew better than to fire this one! Can you imagine a small 45 slamfiring? Once in a lifetime is enough!