Gunshop Posted Against CCW

[ncpatriot]

Stopped by a gunshop in eastern NC. Signs posted against CCW and loaded guns. Other signs advertised CCW classes. I inquired and was told they have a range and can't allow loaded weapons in, as a clerk has to inspect weapons before range firing. Well, these are gun people. Can they not trust a customer to hand it over properly and the clerk unload it before inspection? And, not every customer is coming in to shoot. Seems contradictory to the cause for gun dealers to push for 2A rights and restrict them too. Gun control people would have a field day with it, saying we don't even trust each other.

Does this type of thinking bother anyone but me?

 

[Dannyl]

I have not problems with that

Hi,
Think for a moment, how would you feel if a stranger came to your shop, and next thing he does is draw a firearm from concealment? even if he "only wants to show you that it is clear" the sight of a person suddelnly producing a firearm (which in most instances is loaded) is enough to add a grey hair or two for most people.

As much as we would like to think that the last thing a BG would try is to hold up a gunshop, this has happened. ( in the USA and here)

Over here most gunshops have a singed that instructs everyone to declare if he is carrying a concealed firearm, this way, if he decides to take it out for whatever reason, no one gets excited.

Also, and for similar reasons many of the gunshops and all gunsmiths that I know have a point close to the entrance where one can safely clear a loaded firearm, and a HUGE sign that states " No loaded firearms beyond this point".



With all the misfits ( and generally respectable citizens who otherwise have no gun manners whatsoever) that get to carry firearms these days, it makes the staff and most customers feel safer.


All this is aimed to having a safer environment, particularly because firearms get handled there all the time, therefore increasing the risk tremendously if we take in consideration that many firearm owners are less safe that we would like them to be . As for giving the AG crown ammo, on the contrary; this only demonstrates a safety-conscious attitude. what would really give the AG crowd ammo is if people were to shoot one another by negligence / accidents in a gunshop.

Cheers,

Danny

 

[Skan21]

Not everyone is well trained to handle a firearm. Some people buy them because that's what pushes their giggle button, or to seem tough, or whatever reason they have. Just because someone buys a gun, doesn't mean they know anything ABOUT guns. I trust my friends to handle them, because for the most part, I taught them.

Short story to illustrate my point. My buddy's wife wanted to learn to shoot. So he told me to take her out to the outdoor range to teach her. I showed her the basics, including dissasemble/reassemble, and stance. She had double hearing protection. I squeezed off a mag so she could get used to the noise. I gave her the unloaded pistol, and a magazine. She got into the weaver stance I showed her, loaded the mag and seated one in the chamber, just like I taught her. She squeezed off one round, and scared the living crap out of her. Because the one thing you can't teach is what recoil feels like. She turned to the side and pointed the gun at me, safety off, finger on the trigger, so that I could take it from her. Boy did that 9mm bore look huge! My face looked a lot like this . I actually reacted before I thought about it and slapped the pistol out of her hand. Now she was a smart woman, and knew exactly what she had done, and felt horrible. She started crying, and then I felt bad, but I would have felt worse if she had shot me.

 

[Sixer]

I'd find another gun shop...

 

[Sevens]

There's a very simple way around all of these problems that works for the safety of the staff/customers and also addresses legal concealed carry.

They need to be VERY specific with signage and wording and rules about keeping concealed handguns concealed, simple as that.

If you want to shop in the store, come on in.
If you want to carry in the store, come on in.
If you want to shoot on the range, come on in.

If you want to shoot your carry gun -- clear it in your car or at your home and bring it to the range in a case or a box, just like every other firearm you intend to shoot that day.

If you want to try new holsters for your carry gun, clear it in the car and bring the carry gun in to the store in a case or box.

This doesn't have to be a big deal.

 

[a7mmnut]

Thank God I live in Western NC! They don't ask, and I don't tell.


-7-

 

[javabum]

im not sure how things work where your from but here where i live business owners "have the right to refuse service".remember he not only looking out for his safety but the safety of others.i don't see how not being able to carry into a gun shop is that big a deal.
there is an out door range i go to and im not allowed to conceal carry there.but then again neither are the leo's or any one else but the range officers.
its apart of life and just because you have the right to carry dosent give you the right to do so on someone else's property.if that upsets you then not being able to carry to court houses where you know bad people frequent must drive you crazy.
the whole idea of ccw'ing came with certain rules and if those rules and you don't get along then you shouldn't carry.
rules are in place for a reason.

 

[roy reali]

re:skan21

Short story to illustrate my point. My buddy's wife wanted to learn to shoot. So he told me to take her out to the outdoor range to teach her. I showed her the basics, including dissasemble/reassemble, and stance. She had double hearing protection. I squeezed off a mag so she could get used to the noise. I gave her the unloaded pistol, and a magazine. She got into the weaver stance I showed her, loaded the mag and seated one in the chamber, just like I taught her. She squeezed off one round, and scared the living crap out of her. Because the one thing you can't teach is what recoil feels like. She turned to the side and pointed the gun at me, safety off, finger on the trigger,

I realize this is a hijack of the OP's original topic, so I apologize in advance.

Wouldn't a revolver be a safer way to teach someone handgun shooting. If she had fired a revolver and then pointed it at you, at least the hammer would have been on an empty chamber. I am not any sort of gun expert, but when I introduce a rookie to handguns, I always start with wheelguns.

 

[Sevens]

i don't see how not being able to carry into a gun shop is that big a deal.

And maybe you never will... and if that works for YOU, then all is well in your world. However, the rest of us live in our world (not yours) and we -DO- find a problem with having to disarm at the whim of every shop owner, gun store or otherwise.

Disarming forces you to leave your handgun in your car... which certainly isn't the best scenario for either protecting yourself (the entire reason for having the carry license in the first place) and for keeping your handgun from getting stolen. Further, excessive handling (holstering, locking, unlocking, reholstering, etc) is simply upping the odds for some sort of AD/ND. And I'm not talking about anyone's own personal methods with regards to safe handling, I'm simply sticking to numbers. Handguns that aren't handled don't discharge.

Why wouldn't you see the need to carry concealed in a gun store? You figure if something bad happens that the staff is all in place, armed & trained for the select purpose of fighting on your behalf?

Hey, if you don't think bad things happen in gun stores, you don't need to carry. You really don't need to carry anywhere if you are confident that something will never go awry or on the outside chance that something does go awry, there'll be someone in place to fight on your behalf or protect you or your children.

Your values simply don't apply to me and I would venture a guess that they don't apply to most others, either.

 

[javabum]

good point....and im not going to dispute your logic.
all im saying is that if the shop owner dosent allow you in his shop maybe hes got good reason.there for you either don't shop there or comply.
bad things will happen in the most inopportune time and when you least expect it...but those things happened even before you started carrying.

im pro 2A...always have been,always will. but the fact of the matter is his shop his rules."indisputable".
would i like to carry in all aspects of life....yes,but we have restrictions,and there fore we must comply.

be safe

 

[MLeake]

The problem I have with shops of this nature...

... isn't that they don't allow carry, it's that they make money teaching CCW courses but still don't allow carry.

To me, it's hypocritical to say, "I'll let you pay me so you can get a permit, and I'll even sign off that you are ok to carry, but you can't carry in my place."

There's a gun shop and range like that in Fayetteville. I'd purchased an annual membership due to its proximity to my TDY apartment. However, when I realized they were applying this practice, I quit using their facility and shifted to another range in Fayetteville where I knew the bulk of the staff, and they didn't ask.

Note: They also taught CCW, but they didn't have the "no carry" policy posted anywhere; the manager and a couple of salespeople knew I carried, and had no problem with it.

Note2: Until I was sure it wouldn't be a problem, I was clearing my weapon in my truck before entering facility number 2.

So, yes, the shop owner is within his rights, and may not even be unreasonable to post "no ccw" signs in his establishment. However, if he teaches CCW classes and does this, I will exercise my right to do business elsewhere.

Cheers,
M

PS: It's nice to be home from TDY. If I go to the range, I have no problems with carrying. On good weather days, I just shoot in the backyard. The local rangemaster is quite fine with carrying (IE me).

 

[Lee Lapin]

I gave her the unloaded pistol, and a magazine.

Skan,

Next time, remember the Barney Phyffe approach with a brand new shooter- just ONE ROUND AT A TIME the very first time on the line...

Saves gray hairs and reduces extra orifices too.

lpl

 

[ncpatriot]

Thanks for Feedback

Thanks for the thoughts, all of you. I understand not waving a weapon around, showing it off, etc. I understand the need for safety, no question about that. I think they can easily ask that guns brought in for repair or range be in case, unloaded. But to post against CCW? We are fighting in my state to expand CCW rights. How can we expect businesses at large to trust us with weapons if we don't trust each other? We're actually somewhat fortunate that many businesses around here do not post against us. I just don't expect it from a gunshop. I went once to a pawnshop, bought a small .22 pistol and got to talking about others, including my carry gun. Owner hadn't seen one, I asked if he wanted to. He said OK, and I discretely pulled it out and safely handed it to him. He unloaded and examined it at the counter. He handed back, I reloaded and secured. No big deal.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

We had a local gun shop do this. It promptly went out of business.

 

[Sevens]

So, yes, the shop owner is within his rights, and may not even be unreasonable to post "no ccw" signs in his establishment. However, if he teaches CCW classes and does this, I will exercise my right to do business elsewhere.

I live in a state where concealed carry laws have progressed... s-l-o-w-l-y. But they have progressed. Still, a cheap easy "gunbuster" sign makes it illegal for us to carry anywhere one is displayed.

For damn sure certain, if I walked up to a gun store with a gunbuster sign on the door, I'd return to the car, lock up my sidearm, go inside, tell management/ownership exactly what I think and I'd never return. Whether or not they also offered concealed classes wouldn't even be a part of the equation, IMO.

I'd also spend a lot of time and energy making sure that I direct anyone/everyone I know elsewhere to shop.

 

[chris in va]

Knob creek has a 'no loaded firearms' policy in the store and range until you get to the actual firing line. "Cold range" as it's referred to.

 

[Wildalaska]

Think for a moment, how would you feel if a stranger came to your shop, and next thing he does is draw a firearm from concealment? even if he "only wants to show you that it is clear" the sight of a person suddelnly producing a firearm (which in most instances is loaded) is enough to add a grey hair or two for most people.

I'd scream at him "What are you doing sir" while simultaneously ducking behind the register and beginning to draw from my back pocket.

Like I did the other day:barf:

"I just wanted to show you....."

thought: Jerkoff. Idiot.

Dont pull a gun on me. I might shoot you.

WildidontneedtheaggravationAlaska TM

 

[JohnKSa]

Because the one thing you can't teach is what recoil feels like. She turned to the side and pointed the gun at me, safety off, finger on the trigger, so that I could take it from her.

For ANYONE who is introducing a new shooter to firearms:

Before the first shot.
1. Load with only ONE round.
2. Inform the new shooter that you will crowd them from their strong hand side and tell them why you are doing it. (To keep them from turning around after the shot with the gun in hand and sweeping the line.)
3. Keep it light. There's no need to threaten them, just tell them that it's very natural to turn around after the first shot and that safety has to come first.
4. Tell the shooter to take the shot and then put the pistol down pointing downrange after the shot.
5. Place the target close enough to guarantee a round on paper.
6. Remind yourself that YOU are the one responsible for safe gun-handling since the new shooter doesn't have the gun safety rules ingrained like you do. Remind yourself that if there's a safety violation it's going to be YOUR fault.

During the first shot.
1. Crowd the new shooter from the strong hand side for the shot. You don't have to put your hands out and hover but you need to be close enough to reach the shooter's strong hand arm to control it if need be. I stand just behind and to the strong side and put one hand behind but not touching the strong hand shoulder to prevent the shooter from turning. I leave my other hand ready (but not hovering) to control the arm with the firearm if required.
2. They may not turn after the briefing you gave them but they'll probably forget to put the pistol down. Don't grab the pistol and wrestle it away from them, instead remind them to put it down pointing downrange and gently prevent them from turning away from the line until they do.

After the first shot.
1. Start off with positive reinforcement. (They hit the target, didn't turn around, didn't shoot anyone)
2. Remind them that the handgun should end up on the bench pointed downrange after it's empty and gently point out any other issues. There will be no blatant safety violations because you prevented them.
3. Don't rush the shooter back to the line. If they got an adrenaline rush you want to let them calm down a bit before they shoot again.

Now you can either repeat the procedure as if it's the first shot or move on to loading two rounds in the gun depending on how the shooter handled the first shot. Usually it's just the first round or two that require really close attention.

 

[Tom Servo]

We allow it, but many shops do not.

Before you get all huffy with a shop that forbids carry, ask them why they do so. It could very well be that their insurance policy has a clause regarding the matter.

It's a hard thing to get insurance on a gun store, and what policy the owner can afford could come with some truly bizarre riders. Landlords also add their own wrinkles.

For example, our lease explicitly forbids "producing adult films of video tapes" on the premises. I swear, I have no idea why that clause is there. Honest.

In any case, the owner may have no say in the matter.

 

[imthegrumpyone]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. But really stop and think for a minute, would YOU trust everyone that has a gun ? Scary isn't it !!