gunsafes and fire

[Pointer]

Has anybody personally experienced a serious loss due to a house fire while using a reputable gunsafe? Such as; Security Products, Knox or Browning... or...

Please provide the duration of the fire...
Describe the destruction caused to the home...
Describe the individual damage to the guns inside the safe...
Brand and model of the safe and it's claimed fire rating...

Please add any pertinent information and opinion, you deem valuable to this dicussion...

 

[Playboypenguin]

I have not but when I bought my guns safe I went to a friend of mine who is a fire replacement specialist for a large national insurance agency. He told me that he has NEVER seen a firesafe that did what it claims to do if the flames actually touch it or if the safe was in a burning room. He said they routinely have to cut open the melted safes after even the shortest burns. He also said the UL ratings on them are bogus because Underwriter labs does not actually test them but instead just charges for the approval then files the manufacturers own test claims and proof.

I went to my local fire dept and asked them a similar question and they pretty much gave me the same answer.

Both said the best plan is to get a decent steel safe and place it in a room that has the least burn potential. A garage or basement with a concrete floor and few walls. That way it would have the best chance of avoidinf direct contact with heat and flame.

Also, if you have anything that is irreplaceable...take it to a bank and put it in a safe deposit box. At least there the walls are concrete and there are sprinkler systems.

 

[cloudcroft]

Just be sure to get a safe (if it's expensive enough to be worth this) with a warranty that replaces your safe if it's in a fire, victim of a successful burglary or damaged by an attempted burglary...even if you have to send it back to the manufacturer for them to fix/replace it.

-- John D.

 

[a1abdj]

He told me that he has NEVER seen a firesafe that did what it claims to do if the flames actually touch it or if the safe was in a burning room.

The safes in question probably did do what they were supposed to do, but your friend doesn't exactly know what that is.

Fire rated safes will not always keep their contents in pristine condition. The premise of a fire safe is to keep documents in readable condition after a fire. The documents can be damaged, so long as they are readable. Many people make the mistake of thinking a fire rating equals fireproof.

He said they routinely have to cut open the melted safes after even the shortest burns.

This is true. Locksmiths are usually required to open burned safes for a variety of reasons. Many of your cheaper safes use a lot of plastic parts.

He also said the UL ratings on them are bogus because Underwriter labs does not actually test them but instead just charges for the approval then files the manufacturers own test claims and proof.

Unless he knows something I don't, I'd say he's wrong. UL uses professional safe experts to test the safes submitted for testing. These guys all have full time jobs working for UL.

Both said the best plan is to get a decent steel safe and place it in a room that has the least burn potential. A garage or basement with a concrete floor and few walls. That way it would have the best chance of avoidinf direct contact with heat and flame.

That is good advice.

Just be sure to get a safe (if it's expensive enough to be worth this) with a warranty that replaces your safe if it's in a fire, victim of a successful burglary or damaged by an attempted burglary...even if you have to send it back to the manufacturer for them to fix/replace it.

So long as you have homeowner's insurance, this really isn't an issue. The safe is covered as a loss just like it's contents, and anything else in your home.

 

[rwilson452]

cheap fire protection

Place plastic water bottles on top of your safe. place tehm on their sides facing the four side of the safe and as deep as you want. In a fire they will pop their lids and dump the water. some will come out as steam but you get water too. I will give you a few minutes of protection. Perhaps enough for the FD to get there. Best way is to install a sprinkler system

 

[cloudcroft]

a1abdj,

I do not have Homeowners insurance...I have Renters insurance. Living in an apartment, I am limited in what I can do.

What you say is only true if you have a TOTAL loss, assuming the fire destroys EVERYTHING, and you get the full $$ mount of the policy to go out and buy replacements for everything.

You have to list more expensive items (generally anything over $500 in value) on a separate schedule or you will get jack for it...unless your whole apartment burns down and THEN you get a check for the full amount of your policy which better cover ALL your stuff's value.

If your property is not a total loss, and you don't have the safe scheduled separately, and the safe doesn't have replacement coverage by the manufacturer, you don't get jack for it since Renters policies have a very low limit (cap) they'll pay on individual items UNLESS you list it separately...and pay quite a bit more for the policy, especially if you have a number of expensive personal property items.

So due to the increased policy cost, I do not have my $3500 safe listed separately...too many other items need that and it just adds up quickly to a hefty premium as it is, let alone WITH the safe. The items INSIDE the safe are listed, just not the safe itself. Re: premiums, I DO get a "vault rate" for whatever items are IN the safe at the time of the event -- if they are scheduled separately -- such as burglary or fire, but that's about it.

-- John D.

 

[Pointer]

Has anybody personally experienced (Or perhaps know someone who did?) a serious loss due to a house fire while using a reputable gunsafe? Such as; Security Products, Knox or Browning... or...

Please provide the duration of the fire...
Describe the destruction caused to the home...
Describe the individual damage to the guns inside the safe...
Brand and model of the safe and it's claimed fire rating...

Please add any pertinent information and opinion, you deem valuable to this dicussion...

 

[a1abdj]

If your property is not a total loss, and you don't have the safe scheduled separately, and the safe doesn't have replacement coverage by the manufacturer, you don't get jack for it since Renters policies have a very low limit (cap) they'll pay on individual items UNLESS you list it separately...and pay quite a bit more for the policy, especially if you have a number of expensive personal property items.

I can't speak for your policy or any others, as I am not familiar with them. I will say that I handle between 5 and 10 jobs a year, which are not total losses, where the insurance company issues me a check directly.

This check usually covers the replacement safe, taxes, delivery & installation, removal of the old safe, and disposal costs. This has been the case in both burglaries and fires. From my understanding, most of these policies cover a blanket amount, regardless of an individual items value.

Has anybody personally experienced (Or perhaps know someone who did?) a serious loss due to a house fire while using a reputable gunsafe? Such as; Security Products, Knox or Browning... or...

I've seen many reputable gun safes come out of burned structures. Gun safes are not protected against fire to the same degree as a reputable document safe. I have seen damage to the contents of gun safes caused by heat, water, and smoke/chemicals.

Gun safes are not what many of the manufacturers make them out to be.

 

[NCHornet]

I have an older safe made by Cannon but sold under a different name, I am going to redo the inside of my safe as mine has the old style shag carpet in it. I am going to line the safe with fireproof drywall. I read a report where this was will provide the best protection inside the safe. I think I will give it a shot.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Gun safes are not what many of the manufacturers make them out to be.

You got that right. To me a gunsafe is for one purpose...to keep people from taking my guns. be they criminals, friends, or whoever. The safe just secures them in a way I can feel comfortable that the average criminal or anyone esle will not have access without my permission.

When it comes to disasters like fire, then that is when insurance comes into play.

 

[Pointer]

I am going to line the safe with fireproof drywall. I read a report where this was will provide the best protection inside the safe. I think I will give it a shot.

I think it will work quite well... however, the fire will not get to your contents... it is the HEAT that bakes everything inside... so it should still work...

But If you have a double-wall safe... it probably already has a similar material between the plates...

But you can re-double the fire protection with your dry wall... if you want to...

 

[Bob41081]

I don't remember the brand of safe. In 2004 I had a housefire that started as a grease fire on the stove. I was in my bedroom onn the computer. By the time I smelled smoke--about 4 or 5 min the stove was fully involved. I immeditely got my dogs out thruhg the kitchen door and returnted to bed room for phone got back out side through kitchen with a litlle smke inhalation-computer on , phone won't work back to turn off computer all this took less than 2 min. tire once more to get out through kitchen still in underware could not back to bedroom get pant out window. By now some one had callede 911 took about 10 for FD to get her. In the mean time fire spread to diningroom where a kerosene lamp broke on top of safe. Enough heat to warp the 1/4 steel about 1/8 in. Fire was out in about 30 min. This safe had no fire rating and was close to 20 yrs old. No guns were affected directly by the fire. However the guns stayed in the safe until Monday(fire on Sat AM). The moisture from all the water caused $7800 in damage including $700 in estimates. Replacement coast insurance paid full amount to refurbish guns. I only lost 2 that were beyond repair.

Bob

 

[WSM MAGNUM]

I have an older safe made by Cannon but sold under a different name, I am going to redo the inside of my safe as mine has the old style shag carpet in it. I am going to line the safe with fireproof drywall.

Why not build walls around the outside of the safe, except in the front, with the fire resistant drywall. You could even double up on the sheets, giving you an hour of fire resistance. It will look like the safe is recessed in the wall. I know the door will now be exposed, but I still think it gives the guns inside more fire protection.

 

[Pointer]

Bob41081

Thank you...

It would seem that a modern safe with fire rating and a fire seal (which would keep water out) would have saved your guns in your particular situation...

Thank you again...